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Kevin Klemme
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Mycelia Board Game Review

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River Wild Board Game Review

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Outback Crossing Review

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Right to Reply - When Reviews are "Wrong"

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19 Apr 2021 09:34 #322291 by Sagrilarus
You guys are arguing in black and white when the entire topic is shades of gray. I just posted in Matt's current thread on Dungeons & Dragons and as I did one of the things that occurred to me is that the "MtG mindset" affects how modern D&D players play the game. I'd wager many or even most of them don't understand that they're doing it. But it's an interesting thing to consider.

Unless you've never played Magic.

Magic has changed how games are played, even games not particularly similar.

So that really doesn't matter very much in what I eventually wrote but observations like that can provide a broader scope of understanding. You can certainly get by without it, but it's a nice nugget to have, along with about a thousand others that you get from bringing a broader basis of knowledge to the subject.

I may be a little grayer than others when I review games.
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19 Apr 2021 09:58 #322293 by the_jake_1973
You may also be seeing a bleed over from games like WoW as to how people play DnD, particularly younger people. I think that class of gaming has had a much more profound effect on DnD than Magic has.

Sag, I am curious which parts of Magic, or the Magic mindset, you are seeing influence DnD roleplayers. I got out of playing Magic years ago, but still observe the people at work playing Commander.
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19 Apr 2021 10:19 #322298 by jason10mm

Shellhead wrote: A game reviewer should at least be familiar with the type of game that they are reviewing. A reviewer that hadn't played Magic or any other CCG is probably unprepared to write a useful review of Keyforge.


How so? If they can describe the mechanics and flow of play, highlight strong and weak points in the design or play experience, comment on component quality, and rack up a few plays to make a determination on strategies and game life then I'm not sure ANY prior game experience is required!

Obviously making a comparison to similar games ("keyforge is all the fun of MTG at half the playtime" or whatever) COULD be a useful part of a review, but it is hardly essential. I wouldnt require folks reviewing Twilight Imperium 4 to go back and play the 1st-3rd editions just so they could list the changes and weigh in on them.

Knowledge of other games shouldn't be necessary to understand the game under review (if it is then I would argue that is poor game design right there). I don't think you need any type of "gamer cred" to make a good review and that cred will develop naturally anyway as you do more reviews.

Unless of course you are a shill, your reviews generally suck, and an extensive play list is your sole claim to authority.

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19 Apr 2021 10:58 - 19 Apr 2021 10:58 #322301 by Shellhead
Hypothetical Reviewer: I don't normally drive cars, but here is my review of the Tesla 3.
Last edit: 19 Apr 2021 10:58 by Shellhead.
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19 Apr 2021 11:21 #322302 by Sagrilarus

jason10mm wrote: How so? If they can describe the mechanics and flow of play, highlight strong and weak points in the design or play experience, comment on component quality, and rack up a few plays to make a determination on strategies and game life then I'm not sure ANY prior game experience is required!


That’s a junior review.

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19 Apr 2021 11:34 #322303 by Erik Twice
Magic has been a huge influence on Dungeons and Dragons. Monte Cook's controversial "Ivory tower philosophy" used in D&D 3 was based on design principles used by Mark Rosewater in Magic.

Monte Cook on D&D and Magic

There are also D&D books based on worlds from Magic and Magic is getting a D&D-themed expansion.

the_jake_1973 wrote: You may also be seeing a bleed over from games like WoW as to how people play DnD, particularly younger people. I think that class of gaming has had a much more profound effect on DnD than Magic has.

That's true. It's said D&D 4th Edition is an example of this influence but not having played that edition I can't say if that's just people being dismissive.
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19 Apr 2021 13:39 #322306 by jason10mm

Shellhead wrote: Hypothetical Reviewer: I don't normally drive cars, but here is my review of the Tesla 3.


More like "I'm an expert in motorcycles, sports cars, and trucks, here is my review of a minivan" :P

And even if it is a "junior review", so long as it is competently written is it really any less valid than some long standing old farts review? Particularly when we are talking about board games? I can appreciate the review seen through decades of assumptions, preferences, and biases just like I can appreciate the review with a fresh set of eyes.

The core issue here (as I see it) is sloppy writing leading to a messy review that is neither A. entertaining or B. informative. Again, in the board game sphere the bar of quality is basically lying on the floor so it doesn't really matter how/why you do it, but for other things I'm a lot more interested in the background of the reviewer and what underlying biases they may have/authority they are drawing from.

If I'm gonna buy a minivan and strap my kids into it I for damn sure expect ANY reviewer to mention the massive blind spot that can hide a mack truck that could get us all killed, whether the reviewer is brand new to the scene (thus needs at least some basic knowledge that things like blind spots could exist and should be looked for) or being paid by that car company in free cars for each good review but still has enough integrity to call out an obvious safety issue.

In board games for adults I don't really care so much. It's almost all just subjective opinion.

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19 Apr 2021 16:23 #322318 by ubarose
A reviewer needs to know at least as much as their readers know, and preferably more.

I've been playing for 30+ years, and have witnessed much of the evolution of modern board games. If myself and people like me are a reviewer's audience, they need to have knowledge experience of influential games, including Magic, D&D, and many others.

When Barnes writes something like "this game is derivative, without being an iterative evolution of X,Y and Z games..." all of which are OOP, but on my shelf, it's important, and meaningful to me. However, it is utter crap to a novice gamer who only has Pandemic, Dominion, and Ticket to Ride on their shelf. Which is why it is also good to have reviewers who are less experienced and can see things with from the perspective of less experienced gamers, but are still ahead of the curve with their audience .

So, what you need to have played, depends upon who you are writing for.
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19 Apr 2021 18:18 #322323 by mtagge
If we were to talk about the three pillars of gaming (MTG, Catan, and D&D) they aren't just games, they are part of the overall cultural zeitgeist. Kids who play Pokeman/Yu-Gi-Oh/whatever are aware of MTG because it is the cornerstone of whatever gamestore/comic shop where they buy their cards, planet money did a podcast about MTG. Catan is the new monopoly and known by people everywhere, it is in TV shows, and show prominently in ads to find new players, in most big box stores. D&D is a cultural tour de force (despite a really poor movie with Jeremy Irons). They created each of their genres and still stand the test of time.

It's not that I can't get information out of a review of someone who hasn't played them. It's more that I can't trust their judgement. Certainly they must have gaming friends or partners. They must have had the opportunity to play. How can I trust the judgement of someone who has access to these games, the opportunity to play (almost certainly for free), and doesn't avail themselves of the opportunity?

I also wouldn't trust the review of an abstract gamer who hasn't played chess or checkers. Same for consim player who hasn't played a CDG or a C&C.
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07 May 2021 03:08 #322926 by oliverkinne
It's great to see that my article led to so much in-depth and passionate discussion. I agree, the term "review" is sometimes stretched a bit far.

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