Star Wars: Armada

For less than the Plano/Tool boxes I plan on getting to house my bits I plan on:
-Getting a few more movement rulers to cut to size.
-Getting a few flat metal angle brackets to mark locations of fighters and ships that need to be temporally removed (assuming the cardboard angles included to mark the play area don't work) which is the same trick I used in Attack Wing and X Wing.

wesbaker wrote: M

Sevej wrote:

Hex Sinister wrote: The problem with the movement guide is what? You have to click it? I don't get it.

I think I understand. After couple of years playing miniatures, I'm sick of ruler. Now, a ruler that can bend, thick, fiddly, and break-prone?

That and the latter segments will be in the way when moving short distances. You'll have to lay down the whole thing and try to make sure you're not disturbing any other ships in the play area while not getting in your own way.

Sure, I can see how it could be annoying at times. But I don't think it's a dealbreaker. And like VT pointed out, you can get shorter sticks. Which costs more money though.

What's tripping me out is how they kind of snuck in the 400pt fleet minimums. It sounds like you probably need two cores now. Either way it means more spending. Fucking ouch.

The 400-pt minimum (really, I think, a maximum, since fleets now can be below 180 points) is only after wave 2, though. By that point, I'd think two cores would be clearly less necessary. Maybe the bigger jump is from core-only to wave 1, where the number jumps from 180 to 300, meaning that either two cores or, more likely, some combination of core and wave 1 ships/squadrons is necessary to be viable. Assuming that (as now) squads are limited to no more than one-third of the total points, the extras are going to have to come primarily from ships, which is, in the abstract, as it probably should be.

The biggest "ouch" for me has been looking at what it would take to get even just one of everything from wave 1--a cool $130 from the discounters and just under $200 retail -- and it's not clear that one of everything is enough. Add to that the arguable need for a second dice set (since there aren't enough dice for everything now) and the probable desirability of having a second measurement tool (particularly since pre-measuring is allowed), and you're talking something beyond the wallets of many. Don't forget that a second playmat is also ultimately "necessary" to handle the 3x6 game dimensions.

Of course, there's nothing preventing home play from using whatever's available and not being beholden to official tournament levels, but we're definitely getting into "real" miniatures-gaming price territory for Armada. Time will tell, I suppose, if FFG has priced itself out of the market. I'd guess not quite, but whereas with X-wing you could sort of buy enough of whatever to try out lots of combinations, the price points here are going to limit what was already going to be a much more limited flexibility in fleet building relative to X-wing's squad building. I suppose another possible implication is that while X-wing probably did and does a fair bit to support FLGSs, people may be driven more to online discounters to build out these much more expensive forces.

Oops, I didn't mean to say "minimum" but you got what I'm sayin'.

jpat wrote: The biggest "ouch" for me has been looking at what it would take to get even just one of everything from wave 1--a cool $130 from the discounters and just under $200 retail -- and it's not clear that one of everything is enough.

Probably only if one is content with the limited flexibility that you were talking about. On FFG's site there was a play example which featured five fucking corvettes. FIVE. I took a crap when I saw that, even though it shouldn't have come as a surprise. But that was a hint if I ever saw one. So the news that the game is going to be an extra 100 pts from what was originally announced isn't thrilling. Now you can squeeze in an extra two barebones Nebulon-B Refits on top. Cha-ching.

I feel like FFG is probing around my butthole. That's off limits.

I've wiffle-waffled around getting Armada but the final decision- after making my saving throw against Star Wars- is hell no. Let's face it, this game is outrageously expensive AND it has an open ended price tag that already went up with the announcement of wave 2. For me to get started the way I would want, it's almost a $400 outlay. And my X-Wing playing friends have all more or less decided to stick with what they've already invested in, so the option to just buy one side or split the purchase isn't there for me.

This game might be FFG's shit-the-bed moment with the SW license...it doesn't matter if the game is really good (it looks good, at least from reading the rules) or how cool the ships are...a $68 street "starter" is awfully arrogant in that it feels like they are banking on the SW brand and the X-Wing success to lure non-discerning players onto another treadmill that will be running in tandem to another- not counting FFG's other serial products.

But you know what, there is a lot of cool SW stuff I don't own or feel inclined to own. Armada, it turns out, is about like those deluxe FX Lightsabers...neat, but way too expensive.

I'm much more excited at this point about that Chewbacca Loopin' Louie.

This is definitely minis game territory pricewise. It's possible they're just planning for it to be a low volume product line?

I'm still fairly tempted by it but yeah, too rich for me. I don't actually think it's out of line if you think about it as a minis game instead---i.e. both players need their own fleets and you build your own fleet but don't provide for two.

I actually had a moment last week where I thought that I was going to sell all my X-Wing stuff and buy into Armada... that lasted two days. During those days I could feel all that little kid excitement at the possibility of having huge battles with all the different size ships in the mix. The game does look cool and I was certainly invested.. at least emotionally.

Then I watched Star Wars on the week-end and I knew right away that I don't want to be a bunch of nobodies running a giant ship, I want to be Han Solo flying the Falcon or Luke flying his X-Wing, not a piddly little one either but something substantial... I coupled that with the price and the fact that I already don't get to play X-Wing quite enough and I knew that I didn't need Armada.. cool or not it's outside of the scope of what I wanted from a SW game. I am much more interested in the micro scale and playing X-Wing and Imperial Assault at this time, where I can control individuals. The other thing was that I saw the Tantive IV was the same size as one of my Y-Wings and the SD even smaller than my Falcon. That killed some of the buzz and excitement for me and now I no longer feel the need to get this. I'd still love to play it at some point, but it isn't calling me now and I feel like I've safely dodged that bullet.

Now if I had the time and money to not worry about it... that would be different. I'm not poo pooing the game, just my free time and disposable income.

I think there was a recent interview (maybe on Team Covenant?) where one of the Armada designers came out and said they don't expect it to sell nearly as well as X-Wing but it's the game they wanted to make and play.

I can't imagine replacing X-Wing with Armada, but have to admit Armada does look very cool. It's certainly more comparable to getting into Warhammer or WarmaHordes as opposed to a boardgame.

charlest wrote: I can't imagine replacing X-Wing with Armada, but have to admit Armada does look very cool. It's certainly more comparable to getting into Warhammer or WarmaHordes as opposed to a boardgame.

And I think that may be their angle. Games Workshop is running into problems with their major games other than 40K and Privateer has been running in place for a while, so there is generally room in the minis market right now and Star Wars is likely the biggest license out there that isn't currently filled. So, now FFG can attack the market from both sides: fighter squadrons with X-Wing (somewhat akin to 40K or perhaps Necromunda) and fleet battles with Armada (akin to Epic Armageddon.) You're going to make some sales just based on the fact that people want to pilot a Star Destroyer across a table and others based on the fact that people might be willing to surrender or simply lessen their 40K activity for something that not only requires less hobby effort (pre-painted) but also inhabits a universe that has plenty of draw for gamers and non-gamers alike.

I, for one, am sticking with X-Wing and I've even withdrawn from that a bit (I haven't picked up any of S&V nor played a game in a few months.) Armada looks cool and, hearkening back to my GW time, I always liked Epic more than 40K, but shelling out $400 on a minis game just isn't in my wheelhouse anymore.

My copy arrived Thursday and I opened it up last night. Immediate thoughts - if you pay $100 MSRP you're going to be disappointed, there's just not a huge amount there. I think the fancy bases with dials, plastic command dials, oversized ship cards, and complicated fighter bases all add to the MSRP but don't necessarily have that sexiness factor.

Still though, I was very surprised how great the paint job is on the VSD. Didn't expect it to look as good as it did at Gen Con, but it absolutely does.

Yeah, I held the box in my hands yesterday. The ships are surprisingly small. I'd rather pay for 2 space marine squads for that amount of bucks.

Spent $100 on Cyclades + Titans + C/K crossover and... would you look at that? A complete game and more.

This is still on my radar but it's way out there on the outer rim.

Played last night. Though it doesn't feel like $100 worth of components, it felt like $100 worth of game.
X Wing I was ready for more ships and variety after the first few turns. Armada I want to go back and get some more plays of just the base set elements to get better understanding of how the parts go together to create the whole.

And once the ships engaged and squadrons were swarming all around the game looked sexy as hell. His wife came home mid-game and just stared at the table for a bit commenting about how cool the game looked.

VonTush wrote: Played last night. Though it doesn't feel like $100 worth of components, it felt like $100 worth of game.
X Wing I was ready for more ships and variety after the first few turns. Armada I want to go back and get some more plays of just the base set elements to get better understanding of how the parts go together to create the whole.

This. I have a review of Armada in the pipe. And while it doesn't quite deliver the massive theme injection that X-Wing pulls off, there's just so much more game in Armada. I was actually thankful that the first expansion ships aren't on the shelves yet, because there's so much to explore, and it feels so clean and uncluttered and just so interesting in comparison.

But Barnes is on the money about the money. Not only is the starter outrageously expensive, you can't even play a decent game with it. The X-Wing starter box was at least worth a laugh just played with the three ships included. To appreciate Armada you need both players to have a copy so you can double up on the ships. That's just a crazy upfront cost for one game.

Played a solo game today (180 points) and enjoyed it. One thing it does have on X-Wing is that it solos pretty well. Since you don't pre-plot movement that's not a concern, and pre-planning orders isn't quite as reliant on out-guessing the opponent (although it is somewhat).