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Let's Talk About Root

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22 Feb 2021 22:03 - 22 Feb 2021 22:33 #319492 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
Yeah, that's the current TTS meta. Vagabond plays as murder machine after turn 2 or 3. That community especially hates the Tinker and MOST of all the Harrier in the woodland warriors TTS meta.

If you wanted LilyG to win, you HAVE to watch the semi finals game I linked above. Most exciting game of Root I've seen.

Warning: Spoiler!
Last edit: 22 Feb 2021 22:33 by Gary Sax.
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23 Feb 2021 09:59 #319497 by Jexik
Replied by Jexik on topic Let's Talk About Root

Gary Sax wrote: If you wanted LilyG to win, you HAVE to watch the semi finals game I linked above. Most exciting game of Root I've seen.


Warning: Spoiler!


Seems like a lot has to go right and you need some cooperation from the table to win as Lizards. They routinely asked her what the outcast should be to reign in whoever else seemed to be winning.
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23 Feb 2021 10:16 - 23 Feb 2021 10:17 #319498 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
To offer a trivial response, bashing down the leader is Root. I think you just have to play a lot to know who the leader even is.

I *never* remember that rule around picking up dominance cards to get suited cards. You aren't required to play dominance cards you pick up!
Last edit: 23 Feb 2021 10:17 by Gary Sax.

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23 Feb 2021 10:17 - 23 Feb 2021 10:19 #319499 by Jexik
Replied by Jexik on topic Let's Talk About Root
And the conventional wisdom is "it's not the Lizards."

I also think it's kind of interesting that even at high level play an Eyrie Turmoil is kind of inevitable. If you leave them alone and they do well, they'll over recruit or build on their own. It's the timing that seems to matter.
Last edit: 23 Feb 2021 10:19 by Jexik.
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23 Feb 2021 12:17 - 23 Feb 2021 12:18 #319505 by Disgustipater
Replied by Disgustipater on topic Let's Talk About Root
I’ve purposely ignored all of the information about the Marauder expansion, not for spoilers, but for things constantly in flux. In looking at the Kickstarter, what do you feel the value of the hirelings is at 4+ players? I will never play 2-player. I’m not really sure what they even are; kind of like the monsters in Rising Sun or the neutral stuff in Cthulhu Wars?

Not sure an extra $30 is worth it to me for more Hirelings, especially when shipping is already $15.
Last edit: 23 Feb 2021 12:18 by Disgustipater.
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23 Feb 2021 12:55 - 23 Feb 2021 13:44 #319510 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
Yeah, I see the extras as as only moderate value because at four players, as I understand, you're only going to see the "minor" version of I think two or three of the factions in that situation. So they'll just have a special power on the card but not troops on the map or a major presence like that iirc. I think the 50 dollars for the base game is great value, the other elements are not great value but hardly like a ripoff. I'm getting it all personally but I wouldn't have in a different financial situation.

That said, I think having minor factions at all will be pretty huge---they are supposed to act as an automatic catch-up mechanism and I believe Cole said somewhere they lengthen the endgame a turn or two... which I think is good for the game, a few more turns where the power struggle happens at full power is cool. So my gut instinct is that having six extra what will usually be minor side factions available for that much money isn't essential.

Also, the clockwork factions are definitely inessential for the cost. I've been posting on instagram about how the bots are hit or miss in terms of quality. I'll be getting them because I play solo Root for relaxation, I find handling the gorgeous production, playing a faction's ramp up, and gawking at the pieces feels good. But I wouldn't like recommend it to anyone.
Last edit: 23 Feb 2021 13:44 by Gary Sax.

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23 Feb 2021 13:02 - 23 Feb 2021 13:45 #319512 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
Didn't answer your question. What are the hirelings? So the hirelings are these cards that sit outside of anyone's control at the start of the game. On your turn, you roll a influence die (more with fewer players iirc) and see what it says. On two sides, you get 1 influence point. An influence point lets you take control of a hireling for your side and its power, lock a hireling that is already on your side permanently, or move an unlocked hireling away from another power. The other four sides of the influence die have 1 or more influence points on them but you only receive those influence points if you are down by (I believe behind the leader player?) a number of VPs that are printed on the die. So it functions as a catchup mechanism, since people way behind will get more hireling and hireling powers to boost them.

That said, there are two sides of a hireling. Major and minor. Minor provide special powers, themed to a player faction, but generally don't have much board presence. They aren't as big a deal. But with less than 4, you play with a major hireling in play. That side generally has troops and board presence, and lets you perform some actions with them in addition to any special powers. So it's a way to make those lower number games have the proper crowding of the board.
Last edit: 23 Feb 2021 13:45 by Gary Sax.
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23 Feb 2021 14:01 #319518 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Let's Talk About Root
I coughed up for the medium package. I didn't buy the last clockwork set, so I had no incentive to get the new one.

I'm just not that keen on solo boardgaming (outside of learning games), I'll literally go find something else to do first.
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23 Feb 2021 14:06 #319519 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
It's an expensive addition too, even if you did have the taste for solo boardgaming.

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23 Feb 2021 16:12 - 23 Feb 2021 16:13 #319532 by Not Sure
Replied by Not Sure on topic Let's Talk About Root

Gary Sax wrote: It's an expensive addition too, even if you did have the taste for solo boardgaming.


That was my take on the first one too. If it was ten bucks the completist in me probably would have won that. At like $40 there's no way.

If I really liked solo games I could see buying it, but I would be basically buying insurance on a change in my future behavior. Nope.

(and ten bucks probably would have hugely undervalued the work that went into it, so I'm okay with the price, it's just not necessary for me)
Last edit: 23 Feb 2021 16:13 by Not Sure.
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23 Feb 2021 16:41 #319534 by Disgustipater
Replied by Disgustipater on topic Let's Talk About Root
I just realized I can PnP those extra Hirelings pretty easily if I decide I want them down the road.
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23 Feb 2021 17:09 #319538 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Let's Talk About Root
Yeah, I don't have a taste for the all-in on this one. I picked up the first Clockwork expansion because I thought it might be useful for lower player count games. But I'd never play Root at two-player and don't do solo gaming pretty much at all. And now the Hirelings will solve that lower player count issue, so I'm not interested in spending $40 for another set of bot boards that I'll never use.

Have to say I'm a little sticker shocked on this one. I realize that they had to put a lot more time into the new factions, because every additional faction just raises the balance complexity level. But, IIRC, the price on this one plus the Landmarks stuff is about 33% more than the Underworld was, including its extra stuff. Certainly production costs have not diminished and shipping costs are radically higher than they were a year ago, but I noticed that Gamelyn's KS for TE Dungeons is the same price as their last one (TE Pirates), despite those increased external costs.
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23 Feb 2021 17:22 - 23 Feb 2021 17:26 #319541 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
I think the 50 dollar pledge pack (+2 hirelings, landmarks, marauder box which has the advanced setup and base 4 hirelings) is a great deal.

I think 30 dollars more for 6 hirelings is much iffier and the bots is not a great deal either.

Underworlds came with the new exiles and partisans deck, the resin clearing markers, and the box of vagabonds for 50, also a great deal. It also got bloated and more questionable if you went bigger too.
Last edit: 23 Feb 2021 17:26 by Gary Sax.

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23 Feb 2021 17:31 #319543 by JoelCFC25
Replied by JoelCFC25 on topic Let's Talk About Root

Gary Sax wrote: The other four sides of the influence die have 1 or more influence points on them but you only receive those influence points if you are down by (I believe behind the leader player?) a number of VPs that are printed on the die.

Great summary--nothing to add, just wanted to confirm that you measure the gap between you and the overall VP leader, not you and the player with the next highest score than you.
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25 Feb 2021 17:06 - 25 Feb 2021 17:07 #319732 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
www.twitch.tv/videos/928186768

This is a twitch playthrough with the design team that has the two new factions, so should help you make up your mind on that base expansion box imho. I am enthused to try the badgers.

Also, there was some confusion about what is in the additional hirelings expansion and the minor factions more generally physically---if you go back to the kickstarter page now you'll see they put actual numbers on the component pieces that come with all the minor factions, before it sort of looked like you got a card and a single component for each one. It makes the extra minor factions box still a pricey purchase that is worth pondering whether it's worth it but make a little bit more sense financially from a component perspective.
Last edit: 25 Feb 2021 17:07 by Gary Sax.

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