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Twilight Struggle on Vassal anyone:?

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31 Jan 2011 06:31 #86430 by southernman
ozjesting wrote:

Ok you all...I have a game going with Matt and the VASSAL mod is pretty darn sweet! Does most of the work for you!

So now I want to get another one going as school has started and I have afternoons free! So who wants a game of Twilight Struggle?

I still have to read the rules properly since it's been at least two years since my two only plays, and I've had no chance to play anyone face to face.

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31 Jan 2011 19:17 #86507 by southernman
... rules pulled out ... reading may start soon ... probably ... hopefully ...

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31 Jan 2011 19:28 #86508 by ozjesting
Matt and I have a game going that just entered turn 2!

KingPut and I just started and are already DefCon 2 and meddleing in Iranian affairs!

I would happily be in a few more Southern...rules are pretty simple and the mod is very good at doing the work for you in terms of the "fiddly" things.

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31 Jan 2011 20:24 #86511 by ozjesting
Mod 3.08a is out.

Question...if a game is already started under 3.07a should it be finished as such? Or if both players install new mod can they carry on?

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01 Feb 2011 09:20 #86536 by JoelCFC25
ozjesting wrote:

Question...if a game is already started under 3.07a should it be finished as such?

Yes.

It does depend on what all was changed between versions--but generally speaking, Vassal logs and saved game files contain all the properties of game pieces. If a feature or game piece property is added, removed, or modified from one module version to another and you load up a saved game from a previous version, there's really no telling what will happen. It might work, it might throw errors at you.

Speaking of which, Michael Kiefte (the designer of the TS module) has explicitly stated that it doesn't support PBEM yet. Don't know if that's the way you are trying to play, but just an FYI.

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01 Feb 2011 09:55 #86538 by Matt Thrower
JoelCFC25 wrote:

Speaking of which, Michael Kiefte (the designer of the TS module) has explicitly stated that it doesn't support PBEM yet. Don't know if that's the way you are trying to play, but just an FYI.


Damn right it doesn't. It's massively over-automated. The headline phase especially is a massive pain. It just about works if pushed but I'll be sticking to ACTS in future.

Still I guess it's a good incentive to get OzJesting's newebie arse well and truly beaten as fast as possible so I don't have to deal with the interface any more :D

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01 Feb 2011 10:06 #86542 by southernman
Quite interesting what you guys have just said, as I have been slowly walking through the module and it isn't as intuitive as other Vassal mods I have played, the Headline Phase straight away appeared a bit baffling for what to do.

Let me know your recommendations with maybe even a quick instruction set of the steps to follow to do a turn.

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01 Feb 2011 10:35 #86547 by JoelCFC25
MattDP wrote:

Damn right it doesn't. It's massively over-automated. The headline phase especially is a massive pain. It just about works if pushed but I'll be sticking to ACTS in future.

In fairness to the designer, a lot of Vassal neophytes complain that modules aren't automated enough! They install it thinking each module will do everything for you and get bent out of shape when they realize you have to drag all the pieces around yourself.

I bet he'll get PBEM support sorted eventually, but at least he's been clear that for now it's meant for live play only.

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01 Feb 2011 18:50 #86592 by ozjesting
I look forward to learning ACTS to keep Matt happy ;)

But the only thing I think with the mod for email play is that each player has to be sure and DO everything they are meant to do before ending the turn.
I noticed in another game with KingPut that when he failed to activate an event on a card that was my sides event for his ops...when you clicked the action round advance it told you to do it! So if every player does all the actions it should be right.

Granted...Headline phase is annoying as you have a couple of dead file sends to get it going...but I don't think it is hopeless ;)

Southern....

Steps would be...

Look at your cards. Right click on the one you wish to activate and shoose from the menu your correct option such as Headline, Space Race, Ops, Event than click that and it does it.

If it is a coup or realignment you now right click in the target country space and again choose the correct option and it will do it all.

If you are playing ops points for influence than you right click in correct space and increase/decrease as needed.

When you are done, click on the timer button at top and advance the action round!

send file.

Headline is the tricky bit...still trying to find best way to do that. But it eventually gets done ;

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01 Feb 2011 18:57 #86594 by ozjesting
ok...figured out Headline.

If you are the FIRST player to play your card you simply right click card...choose Headline and that is that. Send file to next player.

THEY will choose their card, right click, play headline. NOW they ALSO right click on the card which is now on board and FLIP card. Now the annoying bit...send file.

First card player now flips their card. IF they are now the one to play they right click, choose event. Send file

Reciever now does their event.

Now it is Action Round 1...if you are soviets, advance the round marker with timer and play. If you are USA you advance round marker and send file.

There should be a way for the reciever of the first played card file to play his card and than flip them both to save a send...but so it goes for now.

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05 Feb 2011 09:39 #86924 by southernman
OK - after poking around myself it's still not that clear, doesn't help that there's not a mode you can play with both sides to see what happens. Things will probably clear up during a game but for the moment can someone clear these questions up:

1. Dealing cards:
    - For the Initial Setup do both players have to hit the 'Deal Cards' button in the cards box (on their turn) or does it populate both hands with the one push ?
    - For the following nine turns do you use the 'Deal Cards' button still (the module knows how many you have left), or do you use the 'Deal Card to US/Soviet Player' option from the deck (I notice this doesn't work for Initial Setup) ?

2. Headline Phase:
    - What do you do with the Headline Phase box (and the + and - buttons on it) if you just place you Headline card on the board ?

3. Operations
    - If you play an enemy card for Ops do you then save the file and send it for your opponent to play the event or do you have to do the event for your opponent ?
    - As above if you send it to your opponent, once he plays the event from your Ops card does he send the file back for you to click the Turn button or can he click it (for your turn over) ?
    - Basically I'm just wondering when the turn Advance button is used ?

That's all for now.

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05 Feb 2011 10:04 #86926 by ozjesting
1. Whomever sets up the game can hit the deal cards button once and both sides will get their cards.
At the conclusion of a turn the US player (usually) can deal cards for both.

I haven't made it to a mid-war yet...but I am pretty sure the mod will; deal the cards as needed and combine decks automatically

2. The "headline phase box" is the turn marker. Once Headline phase is concluded a player hits the + sign and the mod does all the bookwork and moves to Soviet Action round 1. Than when Soviets complete rd1 they tick that box again and it clicks over to USA rd1 with wrap up where needed.
You never drag your cards to the board...it is all right click-chose correct menu item and mod shoots stuff where it needs to go.

3. You have a choice by the rules...and also reflected in the right click menu, to play ops before OR after the event. If the event has a set result, such as "cuba gets 3 influence" than the mod will just do it regardless if you action the event first or second. In cases where the opponent has to make influence placements or do something else....I usually do my ops first, than right click-play event- than send file without advancing turn. In fact, if you ever try to advance the turn before everything is done it will tell you so.

Either side can advance the turn button assuming all stuff is done.

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05 Feb 2011 10:27 - 05 Feb 2011 10:35 #86927 by southernman
Southernman wrote:

- For the following nine turns do you use the 'Deal Cards' button still (the module knows how many you have left), or do you use the 'Deal Card to US/Soviet Player' option from the deck (I notice this doesn't work for Initial Setup) ?
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So the 'Deal Card to US/Soviet Player' option from the deck itself isn't used in the game, you just use the 'Deal Cards' button at the beginning of each turn ?

I suppose the only way left now to see how everything else works is for you to fire up a game and kick my butt. You said you were running 3.07a because of games already running, I've got 3.08a so I'll have to nip over and get the previous version.
You may as well play the Rooskies since I'll mess up terribly no matter which side I play in my first game.
Last edit: 05 Feb 2011 10:35 by southernman.

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05 Feb 2011 10:33 #86928 by ozjesting
I have 3.08a as well...no need to back peddle ;)

And as to the deal from the deck option...I have no idea why that may be used.

I will set up a game right now. I will try to be as helpful as possible in the logs.

But keep asking as needed...

Oh, cool note, just got an email from the mod designer about some error files...seems he is working on making the mod email friendly which will be even better!

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05 Feb 2011 10:42 - 05 Feb 2011 10:42 #86929 by Space Ghost
I don't know because I haven't used Vassal, but the Deal button might be used for some of the events in the mid- or late game.
Last edit: 05 Feb 2011 10:42 by Space Ghost.

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