Dungeon Degenerates Second Printing Kickstarter Announced

SR Updated
Dungeon Degenerates Kickstarter

Dungeon Degenerates returns to Kickstarter to fund it's second printing.  All of the Dungeon Degenerates game materials will be available as add-ons through the campaign at a special discount.

Dungeon Degenerates is for 1-4 players co-op. Players can form parties or split up throughout the game at will; there is no obligation to stick together. Game play is 1-3 hours based on mission. Dungeon Degenerates has an epic RPG campaign feel in an open world sandbox board game, and you bring your experience & items from previous missions. There are multiple missions & objectives of varying difficulty with multiple ways to approach each mission. Dungeon Degenerates is set in a cohesive & fixed world with multiple distinct regions which feature unique encounters & thematic monsters. Encounters allow multiple interaction choices; you do not have to fight everyone you see. Play features an open experience system allowing for character customization with new skills. You are always in danger - the town is not an artificial safe zone - combat is dangerous. There are various modes of travel - players cooperate to choose their route & pace, or split up & fend for themselves. Dungeon Degenerates features streamlined combat with tactical depth; each player rolls dice only once on their turn, using standard 6-sided dice only. There are over 100 monsters with unique abilities & artwork.

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Gary Sax's Avatar
Gary Sax replied the topic: #276348 27 Jun 2018 11:03
Now that is tempting.
hotseatgames's Avatar
hotseatgames replied the topic: #276350 27 Jun 2018 11:06
I may jump in this time. At this point I have more games than time / players. I need a kickstarter that comes with a game group.
Gary Sax's Avatar
Gary Sax replied the topic: #276353 27 Jun 2018 11:15

hotseatgames wrote: I may jump in this time. At this point I have more games than time / players. I need a kickstarter that comes with a game group.


You and me both.
blatz's Avatar
blatz replied the topic: #276354 27 Jun 2018 11:18
I don’t know, I was really tempted by this until I saw all the Nazi fetish stuff in the art and on the website. I’m all for controversial art that makes people think but all the comments I’ve read from the artist kind of turned me off. For me, if there’s going to be swastikas and shit I’d like it be there for a less juvenile reason than “to piss of the squares!”

The game does sound awesome but I guess everyone has their own line for what they’re comfortable with. Maybe I’m just trying to rationalize my way out of spending $200.
ubarose's Avatar
ubarose replied the topic: #276355 27 Jun 2018 11:23

blatz wrote: I don’t know, I was really tempted by this until I saw all the Nazi fetish stuff in the art and on the website. I’m all for controversial art that makes people think but all the comments I’ve read from the artist kind of turned me off. For me, if there’s going to be swastikas and shit I’d like it be there for a less juvenile reason than “to piss of the squares!”

The game does sound awesome but I guess everyone has their own line for what they’re comfortable with. Maybe I’m just trying to rationalize my way out of spending $200.


Thank you for pointing that out. I never noticed that when playing the game. But the artwork is so busy, it's hard to notice anything.
Gary Sax's Avatar
Gary Sax replied the topic: #276359 27 Jun 2018 11:40
Ugh, that sucks. I haven't looked at the website. Is it in the game itself, btw?

Parts of punk culture have always had that gross fascination with nazi shit.
hotseatgames's Avatar
hotseatgames replied the topic: #276361 27 Jun 2018 11:55
$200 is an exaggeration, right?
ChristopherMD's Avatar
ChristopherMD replied the topic: #276362 27 Jun 2018 11:57

blatz wrote: I don’t know, I was really tempted by this until I saw all the Nazi fetish stuff in the art and on the website. I’m all for controversial art that makes people think but all the comments I’ve read from the artist kind of turned me off. For me, if there’s going to be swastikas and shit I’d like it be there for a less juvenile reason than “to piss of the squares


I have scoured the game for any swastikas already and have never found a single one in its artwork. Please show an image of where one appears in the game.
Shellhead's Avatar
Shellhead replied the topic: #276363 27 Jun 2018 12:03

hotseatgames wrote: $200 is an exaggeration, right?


The pledge levels range from $6 to $10,000. $45 is the minimum pledge to get the game, and that seems like a very reasonable price. $200 gets you the game plus a flash sheet so that you can get a Dungeon Degenerates tattoo. The $10,000 pledge level looks like a kicksucker scam for maybe $200 worth of items.
barrowdown's Avatar
barrowdown replied the topic: #276364 27 Jun 2018 12:05

ChristopherMD wrote:

blatz wrote: I don’t know, I was really tempted by this until I saw all the Nazi fetish stuff in the art and on the website. I’m all for controversial art that makes people think but all the comments I’ve read from the artist kind of turned me off. For me, if there’s going to be swastikas and shit I’d like it be there for a less juvenile reason than “to piss of the squares


I have scoured the game for any swastikas already and have never found a single one in its artwork. Please show an image of where one appears in the game.


I'm curious about this to, as I am interested in the game. I have never played or seen an actual copy. From the website, I do see that the Porc Fighter (which I assume is in the game) does not have a swastika as far as I can tell, but does have the SS's sig runes on its belt. There is obviously a lot of iron crosses everywhere, but that is a tiny bit different as it is still used by the modern German military.
Shellhead's Avatar
Shellhead replied the topic: #276365 27 Jun 2018 12:10

blatz wrote: I don’t know, I was really tempted by this until I saw all the Nazi fetish stuff in the art and on the website. I’m all for controversial art that makes people think but all the comments I’ve read from the artist kind of turned me off. For me, if there’s going to be swastikas and shit I’d like it be there for a less juvenile reason than “to piss of the squares!”

The game does sound awesome but I guess everyone has their own line for what they’re comfortable with. Maybe I’m just trying to rationalize my way out of spending $200.


It looks like Sean Aaberg had already outgrown his swastika phase:

www.wweek.com/arts/books/2017/02/27/pork...tikas-because-trump/
ubarose's Avatar
ubarose replied the topic: #276366 27 Jun 2018 12:14

hotseatgames wrote: $200 is an exaggeration, right?


It does say that everything will be offered at a discount. That's what they did with the original - you could get the base game for $45; it ended up I think being $80 at retail and on the website. There are two character packs, which are $40 at retail, but I don't know what the original KS price was. Somewhat less though. And then there are about ten booklets that are about $10 each. I don't know how much game material is in any of them. They seem to be mostly backstory and fluff, but someone told me that some of them have some extra scenarios.
Frohike's Avatar
Frohike replied the topic: #276369 27 Jun 2018 12:26
I haven't seen swastikas in the game, only iron crosses, but some of the fascist "Law" enemies might have some symbology that I missed. Your dudes aren't nazi sympathizers, but rather the "degenerates" that fascism would have sought to expunge.

Anyway.

From Sean on TOS:

I think I was 8 or 9 when I first saw Ralph Bakshi's "Wizards" - in this Dark Fantasy movie the bad guys discover WWII Nazi propaganda & use it during the final battle to disorient the good guys & defeat them in battle. In Wizards it is a form of Black Magic. I had also discovered Bakshi's Lord of the Rings at about the same time & watched & loved Fritz the Cat when I was older. By the time the 80s were rolling along - sexuality, symbolism & fetishism had changed but a lot of the stuff I saw that was leftover from the 70s included this weird mix of BDSM, Leather, Nazi Fetishism, Drugs, Satanism & the like. In the 80s this was still a part of Bay Area street culture & as a young Punk Rocker this bled into the places I would go to find "cool stuff". As part of the aesthetic I've been working on for over a decade I include this hodge podge of 70s tropes that had largely been erased from the public consciousness by the cleansing that happened in the 80s. Most of this stuff came to me via the San Francisco gay scene - I think my first exposure to Nazi Fetishism was through Tom of Finland - it was just background noise & I didn't get it. Then in Punk - original Punk uses Nazi imagery in the same way as one uses anything taboo - it's playing with fire. I understand why people are offended by it & why swastikas are upsetting - & they aren't a central point to the game or the art or anything, they're background noise. That's why they're not "front & center". Just as low-key pervy sexuality & drug use are part of the game - but it's not the point, it's not about hitting you over the head with it, it's to increase the feeling of degeneration & decay - the feeling I had about the 70s when I was a kid. So - this isn't about trying to legitimize or reclaim or promote any of these things, they are elements of the aesthetic that are necessary to communicate the over-all feeling that I am trying to convey. That said - most of the art that is being commented on is work that was done as preliminary work for the game theme before we had any concrete plan on what "Dungeon Degenerates" would turn into. I can give you a list of cultural reference points if you're interested in further research on the subject.

Deleted's Avatar
Deleted replied the topic: #276371 27 Jun 2018 12:36
I’m with Blatz. Noticed the same thing - but it seemed more punk/biker than nazi symbology. Iron crosses all over. I actually didn’t know this was a Pork artist but now it all makes sense with the San Jose punk scene (which I grew up in).

Wouldn’t spend a dime on it. Just not my thing.

Also, the art is objectively vertigo-inducing.
I’d spend half the game playing and half the game gripping the table to stop from spinning off of the planet.
Michael Barnes's Avatar
Michael Barnes replied the topic: #276387 27 Jun 2018 13:47
The fascist imagery thing is hard to shake in punk and metal (especially in the 1970s and early 80s), and Sean lays it out pretty plainly and accurately. There’s no defending it, but there was definitely a trend toward using Nazi symbols for shock value. Siouxsie Sioux wore a swastika armband in that infamous Bill Grundy interview with the Sex Pistols. Joy Division was originally called Warsaw and both names have fascist overtones- and so does New Order. The Dead Boys wore them, the Stooges wore them...it was a “thing” but it wasn’t connected to politics ideology or even racism. It was about adopting a symbol that had been anathema to the post-WWII generation. Embracing the taboo. The iron crosses (think Motörhead) and all of the Germanic stuff- pickelhaubs,
lightning bolts, and all that- is part of that too, and it does go off into biker and BSDM subcultures. Even up to Slayer you see this going on- remember those “Slaytanic Wehrmacht” shirts? Throbbing Gristle, Marilyn Manson, Pink Floyd, David Bowie...fascist imagery and rock n’ roll have long been strange bedfellows.

But now, in more enlightened times, those symbols should fall into disuse because fascism and racism are on the rise and we don’t need either the ambiguity or the shock value, and there isn’t any lowbrow “kitsch” justification for their use. There are actual Nazis working in the White House and concentration camps for non-whites on American soil. I’m glad he acknowledged the problem with that stuff.

So yeah, I saw that stuff and I got it, I knew what he was referencing and I wasn’t really shocked by it and I didn’t thing “oh no, he’s a Nazi”. But I have the context, and others may not.

It tickles me that there is an “Infamous Butcher” and “Angel of Death” character pack. If you don’t get it...well, that’s even a Nazi reference by way of Slayer.
southernman's Avatar
southernman replied the topic: #276400 27 Jun 2018 15:50
As someone who never even knew about this game until recently but who is interested in the wandering rpg type mechanic in a boardgame can people advise me how much extra content on top of the base gaem, if any, is required to get a lot of replayability out of it.

And remind me about it again next week.
Frohike's Avatar
Frohike replied the topic: #276410 27 Jun 2018 16:34
There are plenty of scenarios in the base game and branching between them so it will take quite awhile for you to see all of these. I've gone through 3-4 campaigns with 3-5 scenarios each and didn't see the same thing twice. I haven't used the extra scenarios from the world books yet (I think there are only a couple of these anyway). The character variety in the core set is excellent, but each character is unique enough that it will probably compel you to experiment with more characters each time you play. The core system thrives on variety (in its scenarios, its loot, its encounters/events), and injecting new characters into the mix compounds this effect. If the game hooks you, you're pretty likely to hunt down at least one of the character packs. I'm guessing these will be a bit cheaper in the KS.
blatz's Avatar
blatz replied the topic: #276444 27 Jun 2018 23:17
I hope I didn't imply that I thought the creators were nazis. I totally get the rock/fascist aesthetic, I've just never never liked it. Counter-culture shouldn't equal a bunch of privileged white dudes doing insensitive shit and telling other people how wrong and square they are for not "getting it."
Gary Sax's Avatar
Gary Sax replied the topic: #276445 27 Jun 2018 23:21
Blatz, absolutely not. It's right to point that stuff out. Completely germane.
hotseatgames's Avatar
hotseatgames replied the topic: #276553 29 Jun 2018 09:11
Prices are more than I'd like to pay for this, as much as I'd like to play it. Base game is $70 + $20 shipping. Nope.
Gary Sax's Avatar
Gary Sax replied the topic: #276555 29 Jun 2018 09:39
With 2 expansions it's 153.

Urgh. This one will go down to the wire on my part deciding.
Shellhead's Avatar
Shellhead replied the topic: #276559 29 Jun 2018 10:07
I must be looking at the wrong page for pricing. What I see is that a $45 pledge gets you one copy of the base game. $150 gets you five copies of the game. Was that the pricing for the original Kickstarter?
charlest's Avatar
charlest replied the topic: #276561 29 Jun 2018 10:19
Yes, you're looking at the wrong Kickstarter page.
ubarose's Avatar
ubarose replied the topic: #276562 29 Jun 2018 10:20

Shellhead wrote: I must be looking at the wrong page for pricing. What I see is that a $45 pledge gets you one copy of the base game. $150 gets you five copies of the game. Was that the pricing for the original Kickstarter?


It just went live. Here's the link https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/seanaaberg/dungeon-degenerates-hand-of-doom-second-printing?ref=discovery&term=dungeon%20degenerates

The discount isn't as good on the base game as the first KS. Only $10 oof so it's $70.
Sagrilarus's Avatar
Sagrilarus replied the topic: #276575 29 Jun 2018 12:29
This is another example of Kickstarter becoming an OLGS, which is fine with me. I think we'll see more and more of this, as Kickstarter matures into a more institutional web site for established products.

This isn't just a boardgame thing. I'm seeing it with products from Amazon Basics like cheapy headphones or special sized light bulbs. There's a "print run" of the product, and once the print run sells out the product is no longer available. The product remains on the web store listed as "Unavailable" and stays that way until there's another print run. I think that's the new production model -- spin up an assembly line, blow out 100,000 copies, refit the assembly line to produce something else, sell copies until they run out, consider if another run is worth the cost.

Highjack complete, don't encourage me.

I know nothing about this game and the garish artwork doesn't attract me very much. But I'll tell you what, the spokesperson in the how-to-play video could make a career of it. She's way better than the usual people you see from small-time publishers.