Front Page

Content

Authors

Game Index

Forums

Site Tools

Submissions

About

You May Also Like...

P
Pearlypigeon
June 28, 2021
I
idealhands
May 26, 2021
L
lampar
May 18, 2021
G
gunpowder
April 08, 2021
FG
Frances Games
April 06, 2021
U
ubarose
March 31, 2021
U
ubarose
March 30, 2021
U
ubarose
March 19, 2021
JL
Jason Lutes
March 01, 2021
U
ubarose
February 23, 2021
GS
Gary Sax
February 23, 2021
E
emcglawn
February 22, 2021
U
ubarose
February 17, 2021

Tiny Epic Dungeons Brings the Crawl Down to Size

J Updated
Tiny Epic Dungeons brings the crawl down to size

Game Information

Publisher
Designer
Players
1 - 4

Kickstarter Information

Start Date
February 23, 2021
There Will Be Games

A cooperative dungeon crawler in the Tiny Epic world of Aughmoore.

In Tiny Epic Dungeons players control a band of Heroes exploring a treacherous dungeon in search of the fearsome Dungeon Boss. Heroes make their way through the dungeon one room at a time. Around every corner goblins and ferocious minions seek to block the Heroes’ path. Where there isn’t an enemy, traps are set, ready to spring on even the most prepared Hero.

Tiny Epic Dungeons features a modular dungeon that is unique with each play.

The game is played over 2 ACTS: The Dungeon, and the Dungeon Boss. In both acts, the players are constantly struggling against the waning firelight of their torch which decreases each turn. When the torch goes out, the Heroes are forever lost in the darkness.

After clearing the dungeon of all its' minions and finding the entrance to the lair, players must engage in an epic battle against the Boss. Each boss has unique abilities and a lair with a unique environment that gives various advantages and disadvantages depending on the skill used and where the Hero attacks from.

These Epic Monsters cannot be slain by mere swords, axes, arrows, and the occasional spell. Ritual Rooms around the dungeon must be used to lower their magical bond to the dungeon. The Dungeon boss must be lured to these rooms to lower their defenses and allow the Heroes to strike the final blow!

Victory in Tiny Epic Dungeons is achieved by defeating the Dungeon Boss! In order to do that, the Heroes will need to collect legendary loot, and supreme spells

Heroes of old crafted loot to honor the ways of their clans. Bear, Lion, Phoenix, and Panther. Heroes can discover pieces from these ancient sets that grow more powerful the more you collect.

Will you be the greatest warrior the Bear clan has ever seen? Or will you make the Panther clan proud by stalking your prey and striking with surprising force, unseen before the moment of impact?

The story is yours to tell in Tiny Epic Dungeons!

Tiny Epic Dungeons comes to Kickstarter on 2/23/21: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coe/tiny-epic-dungeons


Log in to comment

Gary Sax's Avatar
Gary Sax replied the topic: #319285 17 Feb 2021 16:31
I've never been the biggest fan of this series, but this is absolutely a genre which could use the Tiny Epic treatment and streamlining.
Jackwraith's Avatar
Jackwraith replied the topic: #319287 17 Feb 2021 16:34
They've gone pretty hardcore here, too. There's a reference card with a few dozen icons for the game:



Plus, the initial image shows sculpted minis (CMON haters unite!), rather than the usual meeples/Itemeeples that have been the standard so far.
Jackwraith's Avatar
Jackwraith replied the topic: #319939 02 Mar 2021 18:10
Just to bring up a topic of discussion about this game: Yesterday, Elizabeth Hargrave (of Wingspan and Mariposas fame) pointed out the fairly sexist artwork on the box cover , where the two female characters are in standard cheesecake poses, with the otherwise shadowy rogue even having her chest lit by a spotlight somewhere in the dungeon.

Elizabeth is absolutely right. This was a poor choice by Gamelyn and, in retrospect, kind of a surprising one. I should have noticed it earlier but, as I posted in the above thread, I'm in the habit of glossing over artwork unless something really impressive is visible (and, from my comic days, a bunch of characters doing "the pose" and not advancing a story is not impressive.) But this is something that was fairly offensive and I should have noticed. The thread, of course, exploded with the usual nerd outrage about "wokeness" and other ridiculous excuses for misogyny and male privilege and Octavian and Co. have been wielding a swift hammer. But it also has some solid points about the example already being set by other games in the genre (such as Clank!) that Gamelyn could have followed.

For their part, the company has acknowledged the issue and already replaced the tentative art with an alternate image that at least allows the two female characters more body covering. We'll see where this goes.
Gary Sax's Avatar
Gary Sax replied the topic: #319940 02 Mar 2021 18:24
Yeah, it's definitely the pretty classic "how can I draw a woman's butt and chest at the same time" pose.
hotseatgames's Avatar
hotseatgames replied the topic: #319941 02 Mar 2021 18:57
The game seems neat. Some things that stuck out at me about the campaign:

- The initial goal of $15,000 is seriously laughable, considering it had several miniature sculpts to pay for.
- each additional miniature was an $80k stretch goal
- they literally ran out of room in the box with stretch goals, so at this point they just sit there making money. I admit the only real reason I considered pledging for this (I didn't) was that it would be small and portable, but when they essentially stop stretch goals because of their own self-imposed physical limitations.... eh. Rubs me the wrong way.
ChristopherMD's Avatar
ChristopherMD replied the topic: #319944 02 Mar 2021 19:26
It's honestly a pretty shitty looking cover in general.

Edit: Oh jeez, I was looking at the replacement cover and thought the point was still valid. The original was definitely worse in that regard.
ubarose's Avatar
ubarose replied the topic: #319945 02 Mar 2021 19:27
They should have stuck with meeples. The Rouge mini is even more bizarrely proportioned than the original Red Scorpion.
Jackwraith's Avatar
Jackwraith replied the topic: #319948 02 Mar 2021 19:57

hotseatgames wrote: - they literally ran out of room in the box with stretch goals, so at this point they just sit there making money. I admit the only real reason I considered pledging for this (I didn't) was that it would be small and portable, but when they essentially stop stretch goals because of their own self-imposed physical limitations.... eh. Rubs me the wrong way.


It's fair to say that the "Tiny Epic" theme may have run its course. Part of their whole production is incorporating a weight limit into their budget so they know shipping costs up front. That's why they called it quits on the goals. Michael Coe has mentioned before that they've had to do redesigns to this or that component because it ends up making the box exceed their weight limit. I've always found that fairly charming about the line, since it speaks to me of smart planning, beginning to end.
Jackwraith's Avatar
Jackwraith replied the topic: #319949 02 Mar 2021 20:01

ubarose wrote: They should have stuck with meeples. The Rouge mini is even more bizarrely proportioned than the original Red Scorpion.


There's been HUGE debate about that aspect, with the "meeples only" faction yelling the loudest. Gamelyn said that they thought they'd gone about as far as they could with the ITEMeeples concept and that they could actually get more loot into the box using just cards, rather than having to incorporate plastic items to accompany them. Plus, I think they just wanted to try something different. It's certainly been an eye-catcher for a lot of new customers that would've dismissed another "meeple game" but disappointment for those who've come to associate the TE line with them.
hotseatgames's Avatar
hotseatgames replied the topic: #319950 02 Mar 2021 20:03
An obvious choice would have been standees. You can stack a ton of them in a box.
Jackwraith's Avatar
Jackwraith replied the topic: #319951 02 Mar 2021 21:00
Sure. That makes sense. I guess it's a question of what kind of game feel you want. Is it just about the mechanics of the game or is it about the feel of playing a mini version of Descent which, in turn , is drawn from people walking their Ral Partha minis through Tomb of Horrors.
ubarose's Avatar
ubarose replied the topic: #319975 03 Mar 2021 11:57

hotseatgames wrote: An obvious choice would have been standees. You can stack a ton of them in a box.


And it's easier to modify standee art than a mini sculpt when you realize you done fucked up.
jason10mm's Avatar
jason10mm replied the topic: #319979 03 Mar 2021 12:59
Wow, i went looking expecting to see some egregious salacious stuff but this looks like run of the mill fantasy comic book art design 101. Boringly so. Whats the controversy? Alluring rogue, scantily clad elf wizard, loin clothed barbarian, and bushy bearded dwarf. Gender swap any of them and you get the same basic result.

Now the expansion characters, thats a whole mess of stereotypes but again, nothing even remotely risque.(IMNSHO)

Its a kickstarter. If they hit goal by appealing to an adolescent male (in mindset if not in body) audience, so what?

Otherwise we'll get shapeless blocky characters that are indistinguishable in the mini, dull on the card, and only appealing to a vocal minority.

Maybe they can do two versions, one their original artistic intent, and one the most bland, four quadrant focus group tested inoffensive to all aesthetic and see which one sells better. I have my suspicions....

But it is a slight departure from their normal aesthetic so i can certainly understand some concerns, though TE defenders is pretty similar.

I think we've discussed this topic here before so i won't rehash it but i don't think we will see an end to exaggerated feminine features on a mini to distinguish it from male figures very soon. Gender specific pose is a somewhat related issue but more problematic in my view, particularly when it breaks the "casual standing" versus "action dynamic" criteria applied to the male poses.

Anyhoo, looks to be a cool game, certainly a theme more appealing to me than some of the other more recent TE titles.

I wonder how the success (failure??) of Heroes of land and sea fits in their willingness to try another big game.
Josh Look's Avatar
Josh Look replied the topic: #319980 03 Mar 2021 13:02

jason10mm wrote: Its a kickstarter. If they hit goal by appealing to an adolescent male (in mindset if not in body) audience, so what?

Otherwise we'll get shapeless blocky characters that are indistinguishable in the mini, dull on the card, and only appealing to a vocal minority.

Maybe they can do two versions, one their original artistic intent, and one the most bland, four quadrant focus group tested inoffensive to all aesthetic and see which one sells better. I have my suspicions....


Don't worry, everyone, I found the problem.
jason10mm's Avatar
jason10mm replied the topic: #319982 03 Mar 2021 13:11

Josh Look wrote:
Don't worry, everyone, I found the problem.


Insightful, poignant, concise.

Well, one of those things.

But anyhoo, just looking at the $$$ for TE dungeons (1.3 MILLION) it looks to be twice (TE quest and tactics at 600k) to 3 times what they usually get (TE dino at 500k, TE defenders and galaxies at 400k). So clearly SOMEONE likes the game. Call me the problem, but i'd say I'm the target audience...and I am legion. ;)
fightcitymayor's Avatar
fightcitymayor replied the topic: #319984 03 Mar 2021 13:23

jason10mm wrote: Whats the controversy?

Venture on over to BGG and read the post by Elizabeth Hargrave (of Wingspan fame) regarding the issue. It pretty much sums up the issues.

(Sadly, the thread is also a great example of BGG's ridiculous current "moderation" policies in full effect, but that's a whole other conversation. Just expect to see dozens of posts vaporized/removed for supposed transgressions involving "derailing" "dismissive" or even my favorite "irrelevent".)
Matt Thrower's Avatar
Matt Thrower replied the topic: #319993 03 Mar 2021 14:57

jason10mm wrote: Wow, i went looking expecting to see some egregious salacious stuff but this looks like run of the mill fantasy comic book art design 101. Boringly so.


So I went and had a Big Rant about this on Twitter but this right here is exactly why TED has got me so worked up. Because 10mm is right about one thing: this is pretty run of the mill stuff.

It's been suggested that changing the box art a bit would make it more inclusive, and I support that. But huge changes aren't necessary. You put a shirt on the rogue or the highlight on her face. Job done.

Yet from the responses, you'd think that putting a shirt on a woman was the end of all things. The end of art! The end of discourse! The end of freedom! Where will it end?!

The towering arrogance of the responses against the smallness of the problem really highlights what a laughable mob of pathetic bigots this minority in gaming are.
Jackwraith's Avatar
Jackwraith replied the topic: #319998 03 Mar 2021 15:21
My favorite part is how the initial response is all "What's the big deal? The characters aren't real. It's just art. I don't see a problem." And then when it was changed: "The outrage! The game has been defiled! It's the end of freedom!"
ZeeAyKay's Avatar
ZeeAyKay replied the topic: #320009 03 Mar 2021 19:02
Honestly it's exhausting to even respond to posts like this because there's so much wrong with it, it's easier to just ignore. But you should be held accountable for your ignorance, even when the problems are spelled out for you. The fact that your tone is so blasé underscores how big of a problem these things are.

jason10mm wrote: Wow, i went looking expecting to see some egregious salacious stuff but this looks like run of the mill fantasy comic book art design 101. Boringly so. Whats the controversy? Did you actually read Elizabeth Hargrave's post? It's literally spelled out in very clear way. Alluring rogue, scantily clad elf wizard, loin clothed barbarian, and bushy bearded dwarf. Gender swap any of them and you get the same basic result. What are you even talking about? It's just a coincidence that the sexy stereotyped fantasy character types just happened to be female?

Its a kickstarter. If they hit goal by appealing to an adolescent male (in mindset if not in body) audience, so what? Because it's probably better to not be sexist if you don't have to? (I don't know, I'm just an SJW so it's probably a very extreme mindset.) Do you really believe the game wouldn't be as popular if the female characters were less sexualized? One of the most popular board game Kickstarters with minis, Gloomhaven (and Frosthaven), did pretty well without sexualizing it's characters as far as I can tell.

Otherwise we'll get shapeless blocky characters that are indistinguishable in the mini, dull on the card, and only appealing to a vocal minority.

Maybe they can do two versions, one their original artistic intent, and one the most bland, four quadrant focus group tested inoffensive to all aesthetic and see which one sells better. I have my suspicions....

Are you serious? Are you implying that you can't have interesting art and design if it's not appealing to horny white men? This is just like a comedian who complains about getting called out for punching down, as if the only way to be funny is to offend someone. Try using your imagination.

But it is a slight departure from their normal aesthetic so i can certainly understand some concerns, though TE defenders is pretty similar.

I think we've discussed this topic here before so i won't rehash it but i don't think we will see an end to exaggerated feminine features on a mini to distinguish it from male figures very soon. Gender specific pose is a somewhat related issue but more problematic in my view, particularly when it breaks the "casual standing" versus "action dynamic" criteria applied to the male poses.

Using Gloomhaven as an example again, I don't know HOW they were able to distinguish these minis without exaggerated feminine features: gloomhavenshop.com/frosthaven/frosthaven-starting-6-classes/

Shellhead's Avatar
Shellhead replied the topic: #320010 03 Mar 2021 21:33
Wake me up when we get around to canceling entire genres of music like rock and rap for sexism and exploitation of groupies. Or when we make even a small beginning at addressing the widespread toxic masculinity and discrimination against women that has been happening since before recorded history. This tiny epic freakout over some lame and mildly repellant artwork seems like very small stakes. It's certainly bad marketing if it makes women feel excluded or subjected to the male gaze when they just want to play a board game, and I hope the tiny epic game makers learn something from this experience.
jason10mm's Avatar
jason10mm replied the topic: #320011 03 Mar 2021 22:18

ZeeAyKay wrote: Using Gloomhaven as an example again, I don't know HOW they were able to distinguish these minis without exaggerated feminine features: gloomhavenshop.com/frosthaven/frosthaven-starting-6-classes/

[/quote]

Hah hah hah, are you kidding? Those gloomhaven minis are TERRIBLE! The male(?) ones are barely even humanoid while the female ones all have delicate facial features and are THE EXACT SAME "young 20 something archtypes" that TE dungeons gets called out in that BGG thread. Try harder.

At least the gloomhaven minis are interesting to look at even if you'd be hard pressed to say what each of them are (while the TED minis are easily assigned a class).

And we havent even gotten to Lara Gambit, the drunken panda, and the asian person...who of course is doing kung fu.

I did read the bgg thread, at least what is left of it. She doesnt like the boob spotlight. I get it. But you'd think it was some sort of Frazetta style centerpiece with bare chested orc dude with "huge tracts of land" rogue lady and saucy witch girl lavishly sprawled at his feet, feeding him grapes.

But that isn't the case. It is an obvious attempt to compose an actiony scene from the mini portrait images and surprise, it doesn't look great. But its hardly an affront to all womynkind either. On the shelf i doubt you'd never notice it. That Sofia Vergara rogue mini is gonna look a bit weird depending on how its painted but it'll still look pretty much like most every elf lady cosplay outfit at every con since...ever. Don't tell me you've never seen a woman at a ren faire, often entire gaggles of them, dress JUST LIKE IT.

But whatevs. The game is selling like bananas. This little kerfluffle seems to only boost sales. And their next game will probably be much tamer in aesthetics like many of their other games. Life will go on.

But that Lara Gambit mini is still aces :)
ZeeAyKay's Avatar
ZeeAyKay replied the topic: #320012 03 Mar 2021 23:51
Jason, may I ask what it is you're actually trying to argue for?

The impetus of this "kerfuffle" is that a woman, who happens to be a prominent designer in the board game space, called out a very popular Kickstarter for its sexist treatment of women on the cover of the box - continuing a very long history of women being poorly represented in this industry (often in much worse ways, as you've pointed out).

This really is a situation of there being two kinds of people. Those who empathize with an actual woman who is bringing up the complaints and are taking the opportunity to change things for the better, however small the progress may be. It's not a HUGE DEAL. As Elizabeth Hargrave said herself, she never told people to boycott the game. She was just frustrated in yet ANOTHER example of casual sexism in her industry.

And then there are people like yourself - correct me if I'm wrong - who seem to feel the need to downplay the valid concerns of an actual woman pointing out just the latest example of sexism in the hobby.

Do you feel like she shouldn't get upset because it's not egregious enough? That people who side with her concerns are "virtue signaling?" I honestly want to know, because I don't really understand what you're trying to get at.
Josh Look's Avatar
Josh Look replied the topic: #320013 04 Mar 2021 06:48
ZeeAyKay, I think we know what he's getting at. He sees that people have a problem, and he thinks that not only should he speak over those people and dismiss the issue, but thinks it's okay to do so because it appeals to him, dollar amounts should be a reason justify it and that nothing should change. Welcoming products* < CONSOOM.

jason10mm wrote: I'm the target audience...and I am legion. ;)


You have someone on the KS comments pretending to be Octavian, people saying Dwarf Lives Matter and slews of right wing, troll filth there only OwN tHe LiBs.

Yeah, great folks, I'm sure.

* - No, not every piece of entertainment can be for everyone, but this is a TE game with a fantasy dungeon crawl setting. It's not niche, read the fucking room and make at least the surface level of it inviting to all players.
jason10mm's Avatar
jason10mm replied the topic: #320014 04 Mar 2021 07:45

Josh Look wrote:
You have someone on the KS comments pretending to be Octavian, people saying Dwarf Lives Matter and slews of right wing filth there only OwN tHe LiBs.

Yeah, great folks, I'm sure.


Dude, they are mocking your ideology and apparently it is working. But its low level humor at best and i try to not engage in it.

I'd actually have to work a bit to find a lot of what i would consider TRUE SEXISM in game art. There are some glaring examples but overall i dont think women are BADLY represented in game art, perhaps just UNDERREPRESENTED. So i think you may be setting your goal posts in a very different spot.

Of course there is an entire school of art that gets that sexist label now (and it is clearly evident with the hawkeye initiative stuff) but i think that style of posing just makes female characters more appealing and i dont think that is an inherently bad thing. Male posing is very different to achieve a like appeal to the core audience.

I showed the original TED cover to my wife and asked her opinion. She naturally commented on the highlighting of the rogues....ahem..assets but then mentioned the orc had his chest lit up as well once she realized what i was asking. I asked if this cover made her not want to play the game and she told me to order it :p But then she basically looks like the rogue anyway so there is that.

Anyway, i think there can be sexy ladies in SOME games. I also think there can be very masculine men. I dont think you can represent each gender in exactly the same ways. I also think that there is a place for more normal appearing folks of any gender and that is ok too.

But to play that cover off as if it were a lewd image from some long forgotten issue of Penthouse Comix (yeah, that is/was a thing) is just a joke. I've already theorized how it came to be (composite of mini portraits that themselves are not that bad) and the company addressed it. Now that poor company will have to suffer examination for every subsequent cover choice and this will probably dog them for YEARS and for what? Cause some lady didn't like it. Hell, i think most of the folks railing against it in BGG and the original tweet PROMOTED AND BACKED the game, knowing FULL WELL what the art looked like, they just flipped over when they saw a chance to be vocal about dropping the pledge. Signaling in other words.
Jexik's Avatar
Jexik replied the topic: #320017 04 Mar 2021 08:15
AFAIK, she said nothing about pulling pledges, just said it was unfortunate that the art was cliche and unwelcoming.

Your point that they should think about their future box art is exactly the point- it might even help their bottom line. This isn’t about clutching pearls and being “offended,” but trying to get popular games to avoid the mistakes of the past.