Thrashdome: Friedrich vs Napoleon's Triumph

WELCOME TO TRASHDOME!

This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting (i.e. voting for) it. Please make it clear for when I check the bets later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.

Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;

Two games enter! One game leaves!

I wonder whether this T-dome will pass the first page... a potentially interesting topic disenchanted by lack of players.

I only own and played Napoleon's Triumph. While it is an interesting design, my interest in playing it is close to 0 and I'm thinking about selling it. Since I'm more eager to play Friedrich ATM, I VOTE: FRIEDRICH.

Interesting choice of a matchup. Played both, fairly easy decision in favour of Napoleon's Triumph. Why?

* Friedrich can be played with 2, but really it requires 3-4 players. NT is ostensibly a 2-player game but it's multi-player variant is innovative and interesting and scales well.

* Friedrich takes about twice as long to play, which limits opportunities to get it to the table.

* Both have high production values but I think NT is possibly the best-looking game in my entire collection.

* The bluff element is NT is absolutely, brilliantly excruciating, and it's almost entirely absent from Freidrich.

I like the 4p tension of Friedrich a lot. On the other hand no matter how much I want to like them, I find Bowen Simmons' games boring. I've owned both and ended up trading them off.

-Will


vote - Friedrich

Huh. I own both of these, specifically because of their divergence from normal hex-n-counter wargames. However neither one of them have ever made it out to the table, either by or near me.

Friedrich is a relatively recent buy, and I haven't done any gaming in months. I'll try to get to it soon.

NT I've owned for quite a while, but the rules have left me utterly baffled on a couple of readthroughs (which is unusual, I'm often quick with rules). I simply haven't put in the proper effort to learn it yet, and so it sits. A shame, because I'm still interested in it.

So, uh, no vote, but I'll actually be watching the results.

Both designs are innovative and kind of fun but they don't seem to have enough to merit the buy-in from my crowd. Any time I get 4 together for gaming this time period, here's what we end up playing every time:

Vote: The Napoleonic Wars (GMT 2nd)

Both are breakthrough games in their own right, and worth owning.

Friedrich has too much downtime with 4 players, but it's very good with three. Ditto what others have said about the length; it can go on forever. Friedrich is also the less balanced game, as the Prussian player has it really tough. Frankly, Maria is better - but it's more complicated (and only plays three).

On the other hand, Napoleon's Triumph takes a serious time investment to learn. All of its mechanics (approaches, lead units, feints, etc.) are sufficiently novel that it's easy to be put off. And the rulebook is a "precision language" disaster. The fan-generated player aids, updated player-friendly rulebook, and FAQ are absolutely necessary. (Full disclosure: I wrote the FAQ when I was frustrated by the 20+ pages of rules questions on BGG and couldn't believe that one didn't already exist.) Friedrich is much more straightforward by comparison, which actually may be in its favor.

I have a good number of friends who won't play NT because they consider it "war chess" - while they have no problem with Friedrich. I like both, but I think that Napoleon Triumph is amazing. (And I don't even like chess.) In my mind, though, NT is essentially a two-player game.

Vote: Napoleon's Triumph.

I don't really know why, but Friedrich just didn't do it for me, I'd be willing to give it another shot (or try Maria) but the one time I played it I decided I didn't need to have it. Opposite thing happen with NT, I really didn't fully understand it but had a blast and immediately acquired one. Its a beautiful game when set up, and despite its tough company for 2 player play time (Space Hulk, Twilight Struggle, etc.) it makes it to the table now and then.

Vote: Napoleon's Triumph

Friedrich may take 3-4 players and 4 hours but it doesn't feel 4 hours. Friedrich has such a simple but brilliant design. I really like being able to bluff in Friedrich. Friedrich is a top 20 - 30 game for me.

I'd like to try Napoleon's Triumph again but it gave a headache similar to going to the dentist or playing Tigress & Euphrates.

Vote: Friedrich by a long shot.

I've played NT once and I 've only played Maria (the closest game to Friedrich) once, but based on learning, understanding then playing a game I feel Maria (Friedrich's proxy) was easier and ultimately more enjoyable to play over NT.

Esthetically both games are gorgeous.


Vote: Maria (Friedrich's stand in)

Shouldn't we be comparing NT to Maria? I thought Maria replaced Friederich.

I haven't played Friedrich. I've played Maria twice and NT five times. Both are awesome, but both are a bit foggy to me at the moment. Both are very challenging. Maria is easier to learn, but NT is more intense. Hard call, but I think I'd go with Maria by a hair because it is easier to teach

Vote: Maria

Scratch that. I'm voting for Napoleon's Triumph instead. Its intensity, big-scale feel (yet quick playing time) and the fact that playing it makes me really feel like I'm watching live and brutal war happen is just too impressive.

With a Maria/Friedrich vote split, it's going to be Napoleon's Triumph for a much deserved win.
Or should I introduce Bonaparte at Marengo as another contender so the vote gets split on both sides?

Vote: Napoleon's Triumph for it's gorgeous uniqueness.

The mind and design principles of Bowen Simmons amaze me. His game system is waaayy outside the box, and his design notes are incredible to read.


VOTE: Napoleon's Triumph

Maybe the line up is a bit unfair, as NT is a development from NaMarengo, whereas Friedrich is the precursor to Maria. I guessed that more people will be familiar with Friedrich and NT, so I picked those. I'd say that the sequels in both cases are close enough to the originals to lump together.