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- southernman
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That probably leaves us with polar opinions on foul language in inappropriate environments then. But that may be just a reflection of me being brought up in a different decade (or two) in a different country with different family and community values.Black Barney wrote: I also don't really see the big deal about bad language.
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- Space Ghost
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I imagine that most people don't cuss at their jobs. If that is the case, then it is hard for me to believe that cussing around children is anything but lack of respect. That level of lack respect for others speaks volumes about a person's character.
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- Black Barney
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Southernman wrote:
That probably leaves us with polar opinions on foul language in inappropriate environments then. But that may be just a reflection of me being brought up in a different decade (or two) in a different country with different family and community values.Black Barney wrote: I also don't really see the big deal about bad language.
Cheers, I agree completely. That's likely what is going on here. My friends are more like you though, I think I swear the most out of all my friends and was at a 2-yr old birthday party on the weekend around TONS of kids. At one point I accidentally dropped a really unncessary f-bomb. It was pretty funny cuz it's classic me leaving the parents to pick up the pieces.
My mom hates it when I swear so it's something I've picked up from work and maybe from gaming online (Call of Duty, etc).
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Southernman wrote:
My point is well and truly proven then - as opposed to all your anecdotes, experiences, and opinions, over here police in the UK do enforce it (and will use it specifically to help clear out drunken mobs etc..) plus the evidence of Frank agreeing with what a main Aussie state is doing.ubarose wrote:
Southernman wrote: All you Yanks thinking this is conservative and restrictive have been brainwashed by your freedom of speech ammendment or whatever the fuck it is and probably think it is nearly as bad as having commie pinkoes in your community - most civilised countries have laws about gratuitous swearing (like most civilised countries don't have the death penalty), it's illegal in the UK where it's called breach of the peace or something like that.
Most places in the US have public decency laws that cover swearing. These are usually municipal ordinances, rather than state or federal laws. They just usually aren't enforced in any kind of even or regular manner. Recently one of the towns near me decided to start enforcing the town ordinance against swearing in the high school in an attempt to reduce the use of offensive language. Kids were getting $100 tickets for swearing on public town property (i.e. the school). It was a big huge controversy.
Over here, if a person or a group of people are behaving in a disruptive and obnoxious manner, they are usually also violating laws that are considered more serious than using offensive language. In most places, offensive language could get you a fine or a ticket. Disorderly conduct, as well as several other ordinances are more effective at clearing out drunken mobs, because the police can actually arrest people and haul them away on these charges. Also, public decency laws only apply to behavior on public property, whereas other laws apply to private property as well. I can swear all I want in my own home, but if I do it loud enough for my neighbors to hear me I'm in violation of the noise ordinance (actually called the police on my crappy neighbors for this. The police fined them twice and told them that a third noise complaint would get them arrested, so they moved out).
Anyway, it sounds like the Aussie law is changing to be more like what we have here in most US towns. You can be fined for swearing in public, and it doesn't require taking it to court.
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- southernman
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- Black Barney
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I'm talking about swearing like you would on a regular sunny day, "fuckity fuck fuck, that chick is nice"
and others seem to be talking about swearing at people through yelling which is verbal abuse/assault
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You've got to be kidding me...Black Barney wrote: I don't live in the States or anything but it's hard not to have a ton of respect for how much they value their freedom of speech and fight to keep it.
How many news corporations exist in the USA now? Three?
Freedom of speech isn't about being allowed to swear in public, it's about being able to receive unfiltered information, not get brainwashed and forming your own opinion - as every citizen in a democracy is supposed to do.
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Southernman wrote: Well what you have said seems to line up with the rest of the western world but to be at odds to what other Americans have posted - I'll think the best of governments and go with your post.
Most people are fairly ignorant regarding the law and I include myself in that group. People tend to only know about those laws and ordinances that they bump up against for one reason or another. I know what I do about my town's ordinances, because I'm one of those annoying citizens who pesters my councilman about stuff.
Anyway, my experience is that many Americans believe "freedom of speech" gives them the right to communicate anything they want, anytime, in any place and in any manner they wish. This is totally untrue. Government may reasonably restrict time, place and manner of expression. That covers a lot, from the jackass with the megaphone in front of a school, to protesters blocking traffic, to signage on storefronts, all the way down to where you are allowed to post "lost dog" and "yard sale" and "the zoning board is incompetent*" posters in town.
* In my town you can't post that they are" fucking incompetents", because that would violate the obscenity ordinance.
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- Matt Thrower
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Space Ghost wrote: I imagine that most people don't cuss at their jobs. If that is the case, then it is hard for me to believe that cussing around children is anything but lack of respect. That level of lack respect for others speaks volumes about a person's character.
After unleashing one of my fairly frequent torrents of verbal abuse at my work computer the other day, someone asked me if I swore in front of my children. To which the only reply I could offer was "fuck, yeah!"
In a serious point I do indeed swear in front of my children, although I've managed to so far avoid the f-word and I certainly don't swear in front of other people's children. I taught my eldest that certain words are ok to use at home, but not at school or in front of other people because some people think they're very rude and would be offended, and we shouldn't swear out of respect for their opinions. She seems perfectly happy with that, and it's pretty much what I believe and how I behave.
"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words etc etc"
I took my Dad and my eldest daughter to an Easter party this year, and while the children were busy playing he & sat down for a chat and he told me a joke, the punchline of which was basically someone yelling "fuck" very loudly at an inappropriate moment. Which, amusingly, he mimicked out loud, thus unintentionally replicating the same situation he was telling a joke about. We haven't been invited back since.
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- Black Barney
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Schweig! wrote:
You've got to be kidding me...Black Barney wrote: I don't live in the States or anything but it's hard not to have a ton of respect for how much they value their freedom of speech and fight to keep it.
How many news corporations exist in the USA now? Three?
Freedom of speech isn't about being allowed to swear in public, it's about being able to receive unfiltered information, not get brainwashed and forming your own opinion - as every citizen in a democracy is supposed to do.
I agree that the media in the States has become borderline propoganda and no longer really reports the news, and when it does it reports opinions more than facts. But that doesn't speak to the presence of some type of blockade on freedom of speech. If you want to speak out against the president or a religion, you can.
And I wasn't saying that being able to swear is freedom of speech. I was saying that being able to swear is a form of freedom, period. I don't know how you can even begin to disagree with that.
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MattDP wrote: In a serious point I do indeed swear in front of my children, although I've managed to so far avoid the f-word and I certainly don't swear in front of other people's children. I taught my eldest that certain words are ok to use at home, but not at school or in front of other people because some people think they're very rude and would be offended, and we shouldn't swear out of respect for their opinions. She seems perfectly happy with that, and it's pretty much what I believe and how I behave.
That's exactly what I meant (I was definitely referring to other people's children -- I really don't care what people do around their own children). So you get a plus +1 for Character from me.
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