MAGIC REALM, I bow down to thee

NeonPeon wrote:
"Or, to save you a click - homepage.mac.com/karimc/FileSharing14.html "
Thanks. I had the first link but was somewhat daunted, given I've seen so much scattered around, and haven't starting reading. And because it'll be very time consuming of course. Incidentally, his reinterpretation of Bohnanza has absolutely stunning graphics; somewhere amongst those posts he mentioned that he's also reworked Puerto Rico. I'll also be taking a look at that because I really like his art.

Anyone know where I can find a copy of the 1st edition rules? All I can find online are 2nd and 3rd edition, and my copy of the game is missing the rulebook.

Actually, if I had a real job and made real money I might do it. It'd be a nice little hobby to put it together for a month or so.

Notahandle wrote:

Thanks. I had the first link but was somewhat daunted, given I've seen so much scattered around, and haven't starting reading. And because it'll be very time consuming of course. Incidentally, his reinterpretation of Bohnanza has absolutely stunning graphics; somewhere amongst those posts he mentioned that he's also reworked Puerto Rico. I'll also be taking a look at that because I really like his art.

Yeah it's great that he has the talent and motivation to work on these projects. Here's his PR - homepage.mac.com/karimc/FileSharing13.html

I'm glad I have a seriously heavy duty printer, i.e. fast and hard to overwork!

I've read through the first 20 pages of the 2nd edition rules so far. It's a tough read, a mixture of awkward implementations of cool ideas and also elaborate statements of the obvious. I really like what this game is trying to do, but it seems like the actual mechanics are a real pain. Even so, I can see that Magic Realm influenced many later games, including even Jyahd, with those blocking rules.

Shellhead wrote:

I've read through the first 20 pages of the 2nd edition rules so far. It's a tough read, a mixture of awkward implementations of cool ideas and also elaborate statements of the obvious. I really like what this game is trying to do, but it seems like the actual mechanics are a real pain. Even so, I can see that Magic Realm influenced many later games, including even Jyahd, with those blocking rules.

Honestly the 3rd edition rules are laid out a lot better and make more sense.

Mad Malthus wrote:

Honestly the 3rd edition rules are laid out a lot better and make more sense.

I just downloaded the 3rd edition rules, and they look more accessible... except that they are about 40 pages longer. Wow!

I've never read a whit of the rulebook for this but I've always been interested in the game.

Thanks to this thread, I've now "played" through three "games". I say "played" b/c really I was just stumbling along, clicking buttons until something seemed to progress. I say "games" b/c I only won 1 combat out of those three games. Normally, I get raped early on by a gang of kobolds or wolves . . . . or even a giant one time!

Looks really interesting though. I may pursue learning the game more. I'd buy a reprint in a heartbeat. I can't pay $150 Ebay prices though and I'm certainly not going to spend 2 years making something that no one is going to play with me.

RKFade wrote:

I've never read a whit of the rulebook for this but I've always been interested in the game.

Thanks to this thread, I've now "played" through three "games". I say "played" b/c really I was just stumbling along, clicking buttons until something seemed to progress. I say "games" b/c I only won 1 combat out of those three games. Normally, I get raped early on by a gang of kobolds or wolves . . . . or even a giant one time!

Ha...That can't be easy, going into Realmspeak without a clue. A few tips:
1. Only play fighter types initially. Magic is complex.
2. Focus on combat. If you're clueless about combat, the rest of the game is just a distraction until your inevitable doom. If you run battle.bat (included with Realmspeak), you can simulate battles. It lets you choose which characters/natives/monsters are in the fray. Pick a single character and a single monster - try a bunch of different combos to learn how they match up - until you get the hang of that. Then slowly add more monsters, or even more characters and natives. Then you can play the "real" game if you're still interested.
3. Look at the in-game log (not the log file that the game outputs to disk) - this will spell out, step by step, what's happening in combat. If you're not going to read the rules, this is essential!

RKFade wrote:

I've never read a whit of the rulebook for this but I've always been interested in the game.

Thanks to this thread, I've now "played" through three "games". I say "played" b/c really I was just stumbling along, clicking buttons until something seemed to progress. I say "games" b/c I only won 1 combat out of those three games. Normally, I get raped early on by a gang of kobolds or wolves . . . . or even a giant one time!

Looks really interesting though. I may pursue learning the game more. I'd buy a reprint in a heartbeat. I can't pay $150 Ebay prices though and I'm certainly not going to spend 2 years making something that no one is going to play with me.

I'm not worried about making my own copy of the game. The game is long out of print, so I downloaded the rules and the new artwork components with a clean conscience. Physically, it looks like just a few hours of printing, gluing and cutting, with no more than $20 in office supplies, and I've assembled print and play games before, plus assembled my own prototype game designs.

But faced with the 120+page 3rd edition rulebook, I'm losing interest. This game is not doing anything amazingly different or better than Runebound, Dungeon or even Mertwig's Maze, though it may have a realistic and crunchy combat system. It's not that 120 pages is too much for me to handle; I did pass the CPA exam, and that was over 20 hours of hard test questions spread out over 2.5 days. But there is just this nagging impression that every aspect of this game design is awkward and too complex for what it ultimately does. If so, then even an hour of assembly and two hours of reading is too much trouble.

NeonPeon wrote:

Ha...That can't be easy, going into Realmspeak without a clue. A few tips:
1. Only play fighter types initially. Magic is complex.
2. Focus on combat. If you're clueless about combat, the rest of the game is just a distraction until your inevitable doom. If you run battle.bat (included with Realmspeak), you can simulate battles. It lets you choose which characters/natives/monsters are in the fray. Pick a single character and a single monster - try a bunch of different combos to learn how they match up - until you get the hang of that. Then slowly add more monsters, or even more characters and natives. Then you can play the "real" game if you're still interested.
3. Look at the in-game log (not the log file that the game outputs to disk) - this will spell out, step by step, what's happening in combat. If you're not going to read the rules, this is essential!

@ Neon That's the best bit of combat advice yet. Cheers.

@Shellhead I'm finding that the combo of watching the Amazon tutorial,playing the Amazon character in Realmspeak, and reading Magic Realm in Plain English (MRIPE) has helped alot. I've looked at the 2nd edition rules for combat only. I'd say dive in to RS and start fucking around in that.

Shellhead wrote:

RKFade wrote:

I've never read a whit of the rulebook for this but I've always been interested in the game.

Thanks to this thread, I've now "played" through three "games". I say "played" b/c really I was just stumbling along, clicking buttons until something seemed to progress. I say "games" b/c I only won 1 combat out of those three games. Normally, I get raped early on by a gang of kobolds or wolves . . . . or even a giant one time!

Looks really interesting though. I may pursue learning the game more. I'd buy a reprint in a heartbeat. I can't pay $150 Ebay prices though and I'm certainly not going to spend 2 years making something that no one is going to play with me.

I'm not worried about making my own copy of the game. The game is long out of print, so I downloaded the rules and the new artwork components with a clean conscience. Physically, it looks like just a few hours of printing, gluing and cutting, with no more than $20 in office supplies, and I've assembled print and play games before, plus assembled my own prototype game designs.

But faced with the 120+page 3rd edition rulebook, I'm losing interest. This game is not doing anything amazingly different or better than Runebound, Dungeon or even Mertwig's Maze, though it may have a realistic and crunchy combat system. It's not that 120 pages is too much for me to handle; I did pass the CPA exam, and that was over 20 hours of hard test questions spread out over 2.5 days. But there is just this nagging impression that every aspect of this game design is awkward and too complex for what it ultimately does. If so, then even an hour of assembly and two hours of reading is too much trouble.

The actual rules only go to page 73, the rest is optional rules and reference. The main things I think are unique about Magic Realm are:

1. The Magic System. The spells can do some pretty game-altering things, not to mention the ability to change the physical geography of the game board.

2. The Natives. The system of alliances and relationships really bring the game to life, affecting a lot of things and really making you think twice about hanging around the Inn too long. If the wrong group of Natives shows up you could be in real trouble. On the other hand, running into old friends can open up a world of opportunities, and heading up a war or raiding party against another native group can be a lot of fun, especially if other player characters are involved.

3. The Combat. Mechanically pretty simple, made complex by having to account for multiple targets and participants. If you look at 1 on 1 character battles, it isn't that complex, yet it crams in a lot of things to consider. Weapon length, timing, armor, damage, health, all without tracking levels and barely even rolling any dice. Once you have it down it also goes pretty fast and handles even large battles well without loosing any detail.

4. The Prowling System. When and where the Monsters appear has logic to it, and with a bit of experience you can size up the risk involved in any particular bit of exploration.

5. The Characters. They all have their own unique feel and some play radically differently from others. The chit system is a cool idea and models damage & fatigue well without much overhead. Your character can be worn down and becomes vulnerable if over-exerted.

6. Lastly, the Treasure. These are well done and add much flavor to the game. The treasures-within-treasures are neat.


These things may not be entirely unique to Magic Realm, but I've never seen them all assembled into one game so well. The system may seem clunky but I think it all runs remarkably smooth after a couple of games. The rules have very few exceptions and are very tight overall.

The most entertaining way to pick up the game is to watch the quicktime character examples for the Black Knight, Captain, and Sorceror (in that order) by the Australian dude over at bookshelf games.

I just found an unpunched copy of Magic Realm for $89 - I picked it up last weekend at a flea market. I have thought about reselling it on ebay, but I think I am just going to punch it and enjoy it; I've been waiting to play this for quite some time.

Space Ghost wrote:

I just found an unpunched copy of Magic Realm for $89 - I picked it up last weekend at a flea market. I have thought about reselling it on ebay, but I think I am just going to punch it and enjoy it; I've been waiting to play this for quite some time.

The seller must have had at least had in inkling the game was worth something then to ask that much. Unusual for a flea market.

A buddy of mine picked up Talisman 2nd edition in basically MINT condition for . . . 10 bucks! . . . at a local flea market. I now own it, mwah ha!