SJG Ogre reprint still possible?

In response to a comment I made at BGG that the SJG reprint of OGRE was postponed indefinitely, Philip Reed (from SJG I gather) wrote this:

"Not true. We will get to this, we just have a lot of work standing between us and the version that Steve wants to publish. Steve's vision for the next edition of Ogre requires about three times as much chipboard as we put into Munchkin Quest; we're studying our options to determine the best way to do this."

That's worth noting, definitely. One problem, though: all of that is SJG-speak for "a long, long time from now." I've done my share of parsing SJG announcements over the years, and here's what I'm coming up with in regards to Ogre: not 2010, not 2011 ... but 2012.

Maybe.

I figure any day now Michael Barnes will put his copy up for sale so he can buy some headphones for his DS. Should I wait for the reprint or just buy his?

Ah, I see.

(I added a question mark to title of the thread..)

we're studying our options to determine the best way to do this

Easy, license the fucking game out to a company that is capable of printing something other than another god damned MUNCHKIN game. Or a company than actually has their shit together and understands how to market and sell a game without Jon Kovalic artwork.

Or better yet, to hell with Steve Jackson's "vision", just print the stupid VHS box edition again.

Ogre was cool...and cheap in the old box. I don't get how one of the cheapest companies in the market can't churn out a re-print of a cheap game. Hell we could probably do it and save a bundle by putting it into a cardboard box instead of the plastic box.

By stating Steve Jackson's "vision" they really mean they're waiting for him to wake up from his long nap.

Steve's vision for the next edition of Ogre requires about three times as much chipboard as we put into Munchkin Quest

Say what!? There's enough chipboard in MQ to choke a fucking yak as it is. Unless you're using 6" tall standups for every single unit, there's no way OGRE as we've known it can use that much chipboard.

We may be talking about a significantly revised version.

Easy, license the fucking game out to a company that is capable of printing something other than another god damned MUNCHKIN game. Or a company than actually has their shit together and understands how to market and sell a game without Jon Kovalic artwork.

You're being overly harsh here. SJG may not be FFG, but they are bringing their production standards way up from what they were. Granted, that means they're just catching up to the rest of the pack, but it's still an improvement, and Munchkin, whether you like it or not, probably had a lot to do with them being in a position to put out these lavishly-produced games.

And even the mighty Cosmic Encounter uses Kovalic art, the online version anyway.

Or better yet, to hell with Steve Jackson's "vision", just print the stupid VHS box edition again.

I can't really disagree with you here, but you know the humble VHS version will probably be completely ignored were it to be re-printed tomorrow. If you want OGRE to become relevant to a new generation of gamers, it'll have to get a ritz-y tits-y makeover with fancy components and slick artwork.

His last "vision" was for OGRE to be a full miniatures game that took away all the simplicity and accessibilty of the original game. So fuck that guy, he's pretty much thrown away all of his credibility on 20-odd years of bullshit design. Somebody needs to wrest control of AWFUL GREEN THINGS, OGRE, SWASHBUCKLER, NECROMANCER, VAMPIRE, and all that away from him so that people can actually buy and enjoy these games today.

mjl1783 wrote:

And even the mighty Cosmic Encounter uses Kovalic art, the online version anyway.

Um ... one alien has Kovalic art. And it's an inside-joke thing between JK and Peter Olotka. No one ever plays it.

Michael Barnes wrote:

... Somebody needs to wrest control of AWFUL GREEN THINGS, OGRE, SWASHBUCKLER, NECROMANCER, VAMPIRE, and all that away from him ...

I'll add Triplanetary. I think SJG got the license in like 1997. It's turning out to be another Wiz-War.

Car Wars Sunday Driving was alot of fun - if only they could have simplified the rules a little. It was the right game at the right time in those days.

Let's go ahead and add CAR WARS to the list of games that need to be saved from Steve Jackson...

MUNCHKIN makes a ton of money because there's an ASSLOAD of nerds who love that kind of in-jokey humour because it makes them feel like they're "in the know" about something that to them means something but to the rest of the world means nothing. ANd since the people that those games appeal to identify who they are as people solely through game products and nerd interests, they can fucking have them. And by god, if that's making Steve Jackson a wealthy man then more power to him for milking it for all it's worth. I would do the same thing in his position.

However, it's a freaking tragedy that his name is now synonomous with these idiotic, pandering card games like CHEZ GEEK, SPANC, and MUNCHKIN CTHULHU. He was a _great_ designer and in fact one of the real pioneers of adventure gaming. If he wants to crank out MUNCHKIN and drive a Ferrari, that's fine. Just turn all that other stuff loose to another publisher.

OGRE and all of the classic SJ games should and could be made available as print-and-play downloads. There's no need for a single dollar of production or development money to be spent on them. They already offer stuff like the OGRE scenario book as a download, so why not the god damned game?

SJ pisses me off, if you haven't noticed.

mjl1783 wrote:

Steve's vision for the next edition of Ogre requires about three times as much chipboard as we put into Munchkin Quest

Say what!? There's enough chipboard in MQ to choke a fucking yak as it is. Unless you're using 6" tall standups for every single unit, there's no way OGRE as we've known it can use that much chipboard.

We may be talking about a significantly revised version.

Not really. We're actually talking about a combined OGRE/GEV edition for sure and possibly one with all the extra shit published in Shockwave, Reinforcement Pack, and Battlefields. If you've never picked up all that stuff, it's worth it but we're talking about dozens upon dozens of unique units in multiples of up to 10 or more each for some. I love OGRE [even though I flaked on my PBEM opportunity with Barnes...(/shamed) ], but just another round of OGRE deluxe won't suffice this time. Anyway, the first go 'round "vision" was plastic, which would have likely required an FFG big box and cost approximately a billion dollars.

Now that they're talking "chipboard," it means they've downscaled from plastic but are something above "avalon hill/GMT-grade" die-cut counters. Dunno if they're thinking something along the lines of Conflict of Heroes quality but I'd guess at least Lock-n-Load Band of Heroes [about the thickest counters you can make without "going Euro" IMO].

Anyway, a massive OGRE pack with high quality components sounds great in theory, but SJG has never gone there with a product that doesn't have a firmly established customer base [paying, not playing, base]. Munchkin is a guaranteed seller with a very recent, very positive track record, so those enormous Quest games were a safe bet. OGRE has a vociferous fan base, but how many of you would suddenly say "Oh, my pocket-box edition is just fine" or "I can pick up the old one for $20 on Ebay" when you see a $90 MSRP for The OGRE/GEV Universe Deluxe Collection? I would bet a hell of a lot of folks would suddenly a different way to spend that money.

If *ever* a game cried for a pre-order system, this would. SJG has a long history of delivering on product, so there's no Valley Games "will they still be here tomorrow?" crap plaguing them, AND it would provide at least a stronger-than-a-wild-ass-guess (WAG) sense of viability of the product.

(And, for the record, I'd pay $100 for a complete set with heavy counters [but not stand-ups, which are a pain in the ass] and mounted geomorphic maps without even a minute's thought on the matter....)

Let's go ahead and add CAR WARS to the list of games that need to be saved from Steve Jackson...

Why? Car Wars is still in print, and it's dirt cheap.

MUNCHKIN makes a ton of money because there's an ASSLOAD of nerds who love that kind of in-jokey humour because it makes them feel like they're "in the know" about something that to them means something but to the rest of the world means nothing.

Munchkin also makes money for the same reasons that Family Business and Nuclear War have made money for decades. People like stupid little yuk-yuk card games; they're easy to learn, and the whole draw-one-play-one turn structure is the most familiar and communicable to people. Everyone I know who plays Munchkin plays it with their families or non-gaming friends, not with their regular groups.

Not really. We're actually talking about a combined OGRE/GEV edition for sure and possibly one with all the extra shit published in Shockwave, Reinforcement Pack, and Battlefields. If you've never picked up all that stuff, it's worth it but we're talking about dozens upon dozens of unique units in multiples of up to 10 or more each for some.

Even with Shockwave, we're not talking about that many units. G.E.V. uses mostly the same countermix as OGRE anyway, and the reinforcement pack was just a replacement countersheet from the VHS box.

Anyway, a massive OGRE pack with high quality components sounds great in theory, but SJG has never gone there with a product that doesn't have a firmly established customer base [paying, not playing, base]. Munchkin is a guaranteed seller with a very recent, very positive track record, so those enormous Quest games were a safe bet.

They went there with Frag, which isn't exactly a smash hit, and carries the same risk of the base not upgrading. The fact is, they've only just started putting out the high-quality component games, so it's too early to tell what they'll do.

TheDukester wrote:

That's worth noting, definitely. One problem, though: all of that is SJG-speak for "a long, long time from now." I've done my share of parsing SJG announcements over the years, and here's what I'm coming up with in regards to Ogre: not 2010, not 2011 ... but 2012.

Maybe.

It looks like you're right, Dukester. SJG plans seem to be very undefined. My follow up question was "Do you have a sense of which calendar year the Ogre reprint might hit stores?". The response:

It's too early to say. Once I can get the pricing to work out where we need it to (I'd like to avoid a $200 edition of Ogre, regardless of how "deluxe" it is) then I'll let Steve know and he'll dive back into the rules work.

Oh well.