Middle-Earth Quest rules up

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=705

Post your thoughts. I haven't had a chance to check them out yet.

Okay, I'm sneaking peeks at it while at work... so this is going to be stream of consciousness, more or less.

The board looks very cluttered. Otherwise, this game has an attractive appearance overall.

The Quest cards are probably going to be like those personal story-type cards in Android and Innsmouth Horror. Meet this positive condition and gain a permanent advantage, or meet this negative condition and gain a disadvantage.

Corruption cards remind me of the long-lost Middle Earth: the Wizards CCG, and also the corruption cards from the Black Goat expansion to Arkham Horror.

Current player token suggests potential downtime issues.

Various components indicate a leveling-up process more suitable to D&D than the LotR books.

Maximum four players... this game won't land on my table very often, we usually have at least five people.

So far, this is looking very much like a boardgame version of METW, only with a more reasonable level of complexity. This makes me potentially very interested in MEQ, because METW was a good game that eventually collapsed under the weight of too many rules.

Hero Decision Making is like those Crisis cards in BSG... current player chooses this or that.

Dominance is something different, like an ongoing balancing mechanism that adjusts to current play conditions. Reminds me a little of the cosmic balance track from the Elric boardgame, except that the Elric boardgame didn't have a coherent set of rules to play.

The Event cards are similar to the Crisis cards of BSG or the Mythos cards of AH. They are the computer punch cards to this cardboard computer.

The Life Pool... now this looks really interesting. Instead of just tracking damage numerically like hit points, it appears that this is more like a personal Injury deck similar to the Injury deck in Arkham Horror. At least that's what I'm guessing, not being able to see sample cards here. Or maybe there are just numbers or even text description of injuries on these cards, and it's just the quantity of cards left that matters.

The Travel Step seems very complex. I will probably need to handle some cards to get a better idea of how it works.

There are three different Monster Combat decks, Zealot, Marauder, and Behemoth. That probably indicates varying levels of challenge, or hopefully different styles of attack. Either way, I kind of like it.

On the other hand, combat looks pretty complex. I hope this doesn't bog down the pace of the game like Runebound combat. Tracking the cumulative strength of attack cards in your stack seems fiddly.

The Finale looks like the Final Battle of AH, only there is a possibility for a fast resolution if either side has met the criteria on their Mission card.

Nice rules summary stuff at the end, but combat has more than a dozen steps!

At this point, I'm on the fence. I see things that I like and dislike, but just reading the rules doesn't give me a sense of how well it all hangs together.

The Life Pool... now this looks really interesting. Instead of just tracking damage numerically like hit points, it appears that this is more like a personal Injury deck similar to the Injury deck in Arkham Horror. At least that's what I'm guessing, not being able to see sample cards here. Or maybe there are just numbers or even text description of injuries on these cards, and it's just the quantity of cards left that matters.

I'm just skimming through quickly, but if I understand correctly, the Life Pool is not a specific set of cards, but they are all of your Hero cards... You draw a hand from those, and when you get hurt in battle, then some cards go into the Damage Pool, and when you have to discard for travel, etc., then some cards go into the Rest Pool. When you choose the Rest action on a turn, the cards in your Rest Pool go back into the Life Pool, and when you are able to heal, cards from your Damage Pool go back into your Life Pool. And your different ratings for abilities like Agility allow a certain numbers of cards to be drawn from your Life Pool into your hand for battles and things like that. If your Life Pool ever runs out completely, then you're dead or defeated in battle. Seems like a very clever system, almost vaguely like the deck-building things we've seen in games like Dominion, but with more of an integrated connection to the individual character's abilities and experiences throughout the game.

The travel doesn't seem too difficult... If you have a card of the right terrain type (mountain, etc.), you spend just that card. If not, you spend the number of cards (any type of cards) indicated on the terrain. So you can always go a certain direction if you really want to, it may just cost another card or two. I like that a lot better than the dice system in Runebound, which this looked like at first with the different terrain types. But another nice thing about this movement method is you can always plan ahead based on the cards you have... you don't have to wait until your turn and then roll the dice and try to figure out where you can go.

This game does seem fairly involved, though, and I can only think of a couple people that I'd have a chance to play this with at some point, and maybe once or twice a year at that. So I can't see justifying the purchase, really, but it does look great and I hope to get a chance to play it at some point.

It's a Koniczka/Petersen design, should be great. The card hand management sounds pretty interesting.

Grudunza wrote:
I'm just skimming through quickly, but if I understand correctly, the Life Pool is not a specific set of cards, but they are all of your Hero cards... You draw a hand from those, and when you get hurt in battle, then some cards go into the Damage Pool, and when you have to discard for travel, etc., then some cards go into the Rest Pool. When you choose the Rest action on a turn, the cards in your Rest Pool go back into the Life Pool, and when you are able to heal, cards from your Damage Pool go back into your Life Pool. And your different ratings for abilities like Agility allow a certain numbers of cards to be drawn from your Life Pool into your hand for battles and things like that. If your Life Pool ever runs out completely, then you're dead. Seems like a very clever system, almost vaguely like the deck-building things we've seen in games like Dominion, but with more of an integrated connection to the individual character's abilities and experiences throughout the game.

I gotta say, that sounds brilliant.

I just finished reading the whole rulebook and I have to say, "Wow!". There is a lot of game packed into those 40 pages. The first thought that came to me was a list of all the games whose shoulders MEQ possibly stands upon. That list includes Arkham Horror for all the event, peril and corruption card mechanics. Magic Realm (yeah I'm going there) for having the caracters' decks of possible actions represent their movement, combat and ability to take damage. Starcraft for the card based combat. And finally Descent: Road to Legend because the way the board is organized and used reminds me a lot of the RtL campaign board.

My second thought was that I was so glad that MEQ dosen't use the same old mechanics to represent character stats (HPs, Spd, Dex, etc) It seems every adventure game since Talisman has used some variation of that formula and it's getting tired. I want something different. In MEQ there's no hitpoints to track, your Wisdom score actually means something and your Dex is more than just an indicator of how well your toon can use missle weapons. Nice.

The rulebook reads like there's really two games in MEQ. One for the heroes and one for the Shadow. If you get tired of playing one side, then other side which plays quite differently, can offer a refreshing change and keep the game fresh. On the same note, I like that the adversary to the heroes is a live thinking player rather than an AI. Hopefully that will keep the heroes' experice from getting too "gamey". Also it means that MEQ will let you play the bad guy. What's not to like about that?

As for the rules, FFG looks like they've taken the lessons of good rulebook writing to heart. I thought the layout and order of presentation made sense. Lot's of clear examples are present and I especially appreciated all the diagrams of the game components explaining their meaning in detail. If you had a rules question I'd imagine it wouldn't be too had to find the relevant rule and and index is there to help. This is a far cry from the 1st Arkham Horror rulebook.

My concerns for the game is that it looks like it really shines with 4 and anything other than that diminishes it's gameplay. Four players is a tough number for us to come up with, so games that scale well are easier to get on the table. (BSG, AH, Pandemic, etc) Also it looks like this one will clock in with a 3+ hour playtime. Not ususally a problem but if you know the game is going to take that long it better be good to make the time investment worthwhile.

Overall my initial reaction is very positive and I'd love to give this game a try. On paper MEQ looks to have a lot of potential but as always I'm reserving final jusdgement until after I actually play it.

-Will

Easily at the top of my must buy list now.

According to the FFG status page this thing is shipping now. In about two weeks or less this sucker will out in our hot little hands.

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_upcoming.asp


-Will

I really need to make a bit of an effort with this, but ...

* The length and layout of the rules is offputting. I've skimmed them but that's about it. FFG rules are always clear and well-explained but I always find I have difficulty summoning up the enthusiasm to read the rulebooks - must be something to so with the layout.

* The UK RRP is obscene. I know there's a recession on. I know the pound is weak and the yen is expensive but the idea of paying £50 or more for one single game just really sets off alarm bells in my head.

* I was really hoping this wouldn't be a semi co-op, or at least that it would offer the chance for individual victories but it doesn't - and the apparent requirement for 4 players exactly is also going to make things difficult.

* As a Tolkien fan I find the idea of setting the action in between the Hobbit and LotR and corralling in a bunch of "heroes" not mentioned in the setting a little ... bizarre. I think I'd have been happier if they'd taken some minor characters from the books instead.

Anyone got a realistic estimated play time on this yet? Official play times are often wildly underestimated, and this one is already at 180 minutes.

MattDP wrote:

* I was really hoping this wouldn't be a semi co-op, or at least that it would offer the chance for individual victories but it doesn't - and the apparent requirement for 4 players exactly is also going to make things difficult.

"Requirement for 4 players exactly"? I don't get you there, Matt... It plays 2-4. If you don't like the co-op aspect then it might be best to just play as 2 players. I talked to someone who playtested and they said it can be played 2 players either with one player controlling 1-3 Heroes themselves, or one player controlling 1 Hero and using the provided 2 player rules. I think I'd prefer using the regular rules and controlling 2-3 Heroes, but he said the game works quite well with the 2 player rules as they are.

MattDP wrote:

* I was really hoping this wouldn't be a semi co-op, or at least that it would offer the chance for individual victories but it doesn't - and the apparent requirement for 4 players exactly is also going to make things difficult.

That is so not in line with the books. I mean, the first one is called "FELLOWSHIP of the Ring" for a reason.

Grudunza wrote:

The Life Pool... now this looks really interesting. Instead of just tracking damage numerically like hit points, it appears that this is more like a personal Injury deck similar to the Injury deck in Arkham Horror. At least that's what I'm guessing, not being able to see sample cards here. Or maybe there are just numbers or even text description of injuries on these cards, and it's just the quantity of cards left that matters.

I'm just skimming through quickly, but if I understand correctly, the Life Pool is not a specific set of cards, but they are all of your Hero cards... You draw a hand from those, and when you get hurt in battle, then some cards go into the Damage Pool, and when you have to discard for travel, etc., then some cards go into the Rest Pool. When you choose the Rest action on a turn, the cards in your Rest Pool go back into the Life Pool, and when you are able to heal, cards from your Damage Pool go back into your Life Pool. And your different ratings for abilities like Agility allow a certain numbers of cards to be drawn from your Life Pool into your hand for battles and things like that. If your Life Pool ever runs out completely, then you're dead or defeated in battle. Seems like a very clever system, almost vaguely like the deck-building things we've seen in games like Dominion, but with more of an integrated connection to the individual character's abilities and experiences throughout the game.

The travel doesn't seem too difficult... If you have a card of the right terrain type (mountain, etc.), you spend just that card. If not, you spend the number of cards (any type of cards) indicated on the terrain. So you can always go a certain direction if you really want to, it may just cost another card or two. I like that a lot better than the dice system in Runebound, which this looked like at first with the different terrain types. But another nice thing about this movement method is you can always plan ahead based on the cards you have... you don't have to wait until your turn and then roll the dice and try to figure out where you can go.

Looking over the rules, I think the relationship between your own Life-Deck/Cards-in-Hand (same set of cards) and your ability to move and fight is probably the best part of the rules. It's a great little system.

Barnes? Are you getting one for next Thursday?

While we had a moritorium on Adventure games, I am so up for this one.

I haven't tried reading the rules as, apart from having alot of shit to read anyway at the moment, having just forked out on Innsmouth Horror and BSG: Pegasus I have spent enough on games recently (also it's a hefty price of £50+ for a game that may not get much play).
Plus I have The War of the Ring that needs a lot more table time - and LotR boardgame, LotR Combat Hex minis, plus three I.C.E games from the 80s to accommodate any Tolkien itches.