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Forgive me father for I have sinned... the Count confesses his sins

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13 May 2008 18:04 #6365 by Count Orlok
Forgive me father, for I have sinned against the holy faith of the Ameritrash gods. I have never played Dune, and for that I beg your forgiveness. Although this be a crime of negligence, I have truly sinned, and beg for atonement. For you see father, I hate Twilight Imperium 3rd edition.

I've seen this game mentioned as the end all be all of the Ameritrash genre, other than the previously mentioned Dune, but despite my best efforts, I couldn't enjoy the game. Shortly after it came out, one of my friends who lived by my dormitory (this was my freshman year at University) has purchased this game. I was overwhelmed at anticipation of this enormous game! Look at how awesome it is! It can't suck!

Well, at first, I didn't think it did. I loved it, the first game, then a little less the second and then I began noticing a pattern. I think the first game got played in February or March, and by the end of the school year, we'd managed to play 6-7 games to completion, with players ranging from 3 to the full 6. How did it turn out? It slowly grew on me, that the game wasn't fun and to me, that's just a sin.

So what is it about the game? I'm not sure, as it has been several years since I've played it. This is also pre-expansion, which could very well "solve" the issues the game has (as I've heard FFG expansions to do). Well, I noticed that the ISC card was bust first of all, and we tried a slew of different variants, but none seemed to hit the mark. I've heard there is a variant for this in the expansion, but as I haven't tried it, I can't say whether it has "officially" been fixed or not.

I just expected so much more, I guess. When it came down to it, combat just destroyed everyone involved, and then once weakened, the other players would just scoop in and destroy both sides. Maybe attrition is too high, maybe its too expensive to activate fleets... I don't know, it just wasn't right. I've heard this also referred to as a "cold war" game, and although that might fit better, I would prefer to play a game of twilight struggle for that feeling. I wanted the 4x game promised, and not a game where the most neutral or opportunistic player wins. I want to be able to form alliances, conquer, kill, expand, trade! Is that so hard?

Is there something wrong with me? Admittedly, I played with a group of people who got pretty tiresome over the games, and that clenched down on any enjoyment that could be had. Maybe with a more fun, faster moving group of people the game could be better, but it just seemed to be so much wasted potential.

If I want a long game with lots of combat, player interaction, asymmetrical sides and diplomacy, I'll just stick to something solid like Sword of Rome or Here I Stand. Problem is, they don't scratch that sci-fi itch for me!

Am I beyond hope? Can I be forgiven? Will there be a place for me in the great afterlife of the Ameritrash gods?

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13 May 2008 21:32 #6376 by mikelawson
Nah.

It's no big thing; after all, look at the fights that Runebound inspires around here.

(For the record, I like Runebound. A couple of weeks ago I hooked up with Big Lizard and he brought his copy over, and we played it until 2 AM or so.)

--Mike L.

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13 May 2008 22:37 #6382 by Ken B.
Look here, let's set this thread straight before it gets out of hand:



Twilight Imperium and Runebound are both seventeen kinds of awesome.

We do not tolerate deviance here. Well, with the exception of Steve Avery.

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13 May 2008 23:42 #6384 by Shellhead
The Seven Deadly Sins of AmeriTrash:

1. Sloth - Failure to play AmeriTrash games due to laziness, including unwillingness to spend a half hour setting up Arkham Horror. Also, the inability to continue playing the same game for more than two hours is surely a sign of Sloth, and perhaps also The Mark of the Beast™.

2. Wrath - Uncontrolled feelings of hatred and anger. It is perfectly natural to want to flip the board while in the third hour of a losing game of Risk (original version), but to actually flip the board is to commit the AmeriTrash sin of wrath.

3. Lust - Excessive and unnatural love for boardgames with violent subject matter. It's okay to enjoy playing Last Night on Earth, but save the wanking for private time with the internet pron at home.

4. Gluttony - Lo, though it seems beyond belief, there can be overindulgence in playing AmeriTrash boardgames, including playing too much, too eagerly and too expensively. Thou hast overplayed the AmeriTrash games if the EuroGames begin to look appealing. Also, beware the excessive consumption of snacks and/or alcohol at gaming events, for this can only lead to dismal spills, or Worse.

5. Greed - Another sin of excess, Greed is the sin that leads boardgamers to covet ownership of closets full of AmeriTrash boardgames, especially with 30% off MSRP and free shipping.

6. Envy - Coveting what thy fellow AmeriTrash gamer has. In game, this can be as simple as coveting the spice harvest of another player in a game of Dune. Outside of a game, it leads to unrighteous thoughts about another player's game collection while he is paying the pizza guy.

7. Pride - This insidious sin can manifest in myriad forms. Posting pictures of closetfuls or basementloads of games online is one kind of pride. Unreasonable gloating after winning a game is another, especially when standing on furniture and thrusting the pelvis at vanquished opponents.

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13 May 2008 23:52 - 13 May 2008 23:54 #6385 by Shellhead
Btw, this Hieronymous Bosch picture would be perfect for a EuroGame about sins:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Boschsevendeadlysins.jpg
Last edit: 13 May 2008 23:54 by Shellhead.

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14 May 2008 08:17 #6389 by mikelawson
Ken B. wrote:

Look here, let's set this thread straight before it gets out of hand:



Twilight Imperium and Runebound are both seventeen kinds of awesome.

We do not tolerate deviance here. Well, with the exception of Steve Avery.


What the.... BARNES!! Since when did you start loving Runebound??!!

--Mike L.

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14 May 2008 10:03 #6392 by Michael Barnes

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14 May 2008 10:26 #6395 by Ken B.
THAT'S NOT TRUE...THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!

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14 May 2008 11:15 #6397 by Druen Kree
Runebound is a exercise in infinite monotony.

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14 May 2008 11:51 #6399 by ChristopherMD
I've never played Dune or TI3.

I have played games of TI2 and Runebound. I enjoy both.

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14 May 2008 11:59 #6401 by Rliyen
Ken B. wrote:

THAT'S NOT TRUE...THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!


Darth Barnes: Search your feelings, you KNOW it to be TRUE!

[Strains of the Imperial March reach their crescendo]

Ken B.: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NAyooooooOOoooOOo!


It's okay, Ken.... I'll need therapy just like you. I LOVE RUNEBOUND! WHEN DARKNESS COMES RULES! MUNCHKIN IS THE PENTULTIMATE SMACK TALKING GAME!!

*IZ TASED*

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14 May 2008 12:09 #6402 by Ken B.

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14 May 2008 12:25 #6404 by Shellhead
Druen Kree wrote:

Runebound is a exercise in infinite monotony.


I don't find Runebound to be quite that bad, but it is tedious and repetitive at times. The overall play of the game is multi-player solitaire. The combat system is a protracted dicefest, and too detailed. The movement dice are a neat idea, but in actual play, tend to slow things down. There is definite potential for a runaway leader problem. I've only played the base game twice, and haven't tried any of the expansions, so it's possible that the expansions make the game better. I would be interested in trying that Sands of al-Kalim expansion, because the legendary quests and the day or night travel issues sound fun.

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14 May 2008 14:55 #6408 by Aarontu
I've never played Descent or Dune or Fortress America or Runebound, though I do have TI2 and TI3 and love them both in different ways.

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14 May 2008 15:07 #6410 by Count Orlok
So what is it that I'm missing with this game? I am alone in my sins it seems, but then why should I follow the true faith?

I have never heard anyone refer to runebound as the true faith, mostly because it looks pretty shitty.

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