Let's Talk Maria

I seem to have a 3-player only game hole in my wargame collection. I usually fill that spot with Nexus Ops or GW Warrior Knights. Both great games, but I'd like a game with a little more real history behind it, so looking for a game on a proper conflict.

I've heard good things about Maria. I'd be playing it with the type of folks who play 1812: Invasion of Canada or CG's Julius Caesar, so a little on the lighter side of rules, but deep strategy. I'm considering this over CG's Napoleon (also three players) because I understand Napoleon is actually better with 2 whereas Maria is 3 straight up.

So, what's the word here?

Maria is an excellent 3-player game, but it doesn't really fit your "lighter side" criterion. It's a fantastic game, though.

Friedrich is a simplified Maria, so it fits the bill. With three players, one player is Prussia/Hanover, one player is Austria/Imperial Army, and one player is Russia/Sweden/France. (With four, one player is "just" France.)

If the Prussian player is experienced, though, Friedrich can really drag on. Our last game of Friedrich lasted 5-6 hours, but that's not typical. Friedrich can easily end in 2-3 hours if one of the anti-Prussian armies accomplishes its objectives quickly. We can usually finish a game of Friedrich in a single evening (we play from 8 pm - midnight).

The game can drag because the only way for Prussia to win is for three of the five powers - Russia, France, Sweden - to be knocked out via the event deck. Prussia doesn't have any objectives other than holding on for dear life, unless the Prussian player goes nuts and selects the "Prussian Offensive" advanced option. In which case it will probably lose, and lose quickly.

My major recommendation to speed things along would be to remove some of the minor event cards (3-4? more?) at random from the event deck. I haven't tried this yet, but after our last game I think it may be a necessity.

I would not take the road through Maria unless I had no other choice

Maria is really a unique game. It's pretty rare these days for a game to have its own space. The rules are a bit more complex, but it's well worth the trip. I think if you set expectations appropriately you'll get them to sit down to it, and I think when all is said and done all of you will be glad you did.

S.

In what way are the rules complex? Unintuitive? Too situational? They are more complex than what game, but less complex than?

I think it's comparable to Julius Caesar. I'm a tard when it comes to most wargames, but had no problem with Maria. I was also able to explain it to new players and have an effective game without much worry. As long as you're a step beyond Memoir '44, I'd say give it a try. It's also deep as hell in its own way (strategically more than tactically, although the wonky combat rules make you think that the tactics are where it's at).

Maria is brilliant. I'm actually planning to sit down to a game of it this weekend. I'm about to re-familiaze myself with the rules so I'm going by memory in what follows.

The rules about manoeuvre, combat, and what to do on your turn are easy. But there are some serious challenges in the game that require planning through the full length of the game. The rules that set those challenges up are (1) the different TC (tactic card) income each power has, and (2) the changes in political boundaries.

(1) is straightforward. Some powers (prussia and pragmatic army, if memory serves) start with lots of TCs (cards which give you strength and flexibility in combat), but the TCs they get per turn is low. Others (France and Austria) start with fewer cards but they get more each turn. The effect is to create early openings for some powers, and a catch up and strong endgame for other powers. So there is a swing in momentum that can happen, and that swing creates freaking awesome moments. It requires planning.

(2) is more challenging. Prussia can annex Silesia by controlling all of it, which greatly extends its reach and gives it another supply train which is crucial. However, it cannot complete the annex without Austrian consent. But Austria will more often than not be game because if Prussia annexes Silesia Prussia must remove its control over Austria forts. So Austria has more of an incentive to let Prussia annex Silesia the more Prussia has conquered forts in Austria. That encourages Prussia to be quite belligerent towards Austria. However: there is also a rule that punishes Prussia every time it loses a fight, the consequence of which is possibly to put Saxony under Maria's control rather than Fred's. So it's all fucked up and Fred has to walk a fine line between going all out and being cautious.

My player aid (latest version): dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8054229/maria_rulessummary.pdf

I agree totally with what Hatchling and Wkover. Top 20 favorite games. Best 3 player wargame.

I saw Maria being played once, saw the cards, and they really turned me down.

Sevej wrote: I saw Maria being played once, saw the cards, and they really turned me down.

Please elaborate. The cards look gorgeous in the photos I've seen.

Jeff White wrote:

Sevej wrote: I saw Maria being played once, saw the cards, and they really turned me down.

Please elaborate. The cards look gorgeous in the photos I've seen.

They are just like regular playing cards, with playing cards suits.

Playing cards with some gorgeous art.

Jeff White wrote: Playing cards with some gorgeous art.

I absolutely agree. But it just doesn't sit well with me. Same thing why I disliked Malifaux (they use playing cards also, but to replace die roll).

The numbers and suits are a key part of the play, the part that really puts an edge in this particular game. They build favored ground into the map. Seriously, don't let something like that put you off of such a unique title.

S.