Shut up about gateway games

White Castle sliders have probably saved countless lives by inducing vomiting before fatal cases of alcohol poisoning could occur.

Back to the original topic...

"Gateway games" definitely exist, in the sense that there are games that have a broader appeal, and that a lot of people get started on those games and then move on to stuff that's more niche in its appeal. I think it's fine to have a term for games like that, but I'm also not a big fan of the "gateway games" term for a lot of the reasons stated. It gives an impression that lighter more approachable games are first steps, and that as gamers "mature" they will move on from them. I don't know about anyone else, but as I've gotten older my gaming diet has consisted of a lot more lighter games, largely because they fit into my life better than more complex stuff.

But this is also not a topic that I think is particularly worth getting fussed about, because I think most people like a healthy mix of different types of games, and in practice most people are fine with letting people play with whatever. So a term like "Gateway games" is pretty benign once we recognize its limitations.

One persons gateway game is another persons filler game.

And one persons filler game is anothers lifestyle game. I used to work with a guy who played Uno at lunchtime everyday.

The function of gates is to keep people in or out. That is why we attach them to walls of castles or sheep pens etc. In my view a good gateway game should therefore keep people in or out.

I'm only kind of joking. People have tastes, whilst this does change over time, the idea that you can create them by exposing someone to specific experiences is foolish.

The only criteria for a gateway game in my view is that it be less than 2 hours long so if someone does not want to enter the gate they are not stuck there to long. If you like heavy euros just place Brass with people. They will love it or hate it.

hotseatgames wrote:

Shellhead wrote: There are plenty of crappy things that are also popular, like White Castle hamburgers.

In my college days, there were two area fast foods I could only tolerate when drunk. White Castle, and Skyline.

Don't have a clue what Skyline is, but in my college town there was a pizza joint that made a horrible pie. Gumby's Pizza. It did soak up the booze well and was something like four dollars for a 12 inch pie.

Interesting that this term gets some folks so charged up and ready to take a run at the same old windmills.

Seems pretty simple to me, a gateway game is any game that can be taught quickly, has concepts that can be grasped well enough that a new player won't be at a huge disadvantage, and serves as a conceptual foundation for discussing mechanics and play techniques for more over wrought games.

A group with familiarity of a few gateway games can often be taught other games just based on references to what they know, a gaming shorthand if you will.

It's not a pejorative term at all, it's an acknowledgement that some games are great for teaching the inexperienced, are often still challenging to play, and have longevity in the hobby.

mtagge wrote:

hotseatgames wrote:

Shellhead wrote: There are plenty of crappy things that are also popular, like White Castle hamburgers.

In my college days, there were two area fast foods I could only tolerate when drunk. White Castle, and Skyline.

Don't have a clue what Skyline is, but in my college town there was a pizza joint that made a horrible pie. Gumby's Pizza. It did soak up the booze well and was something like four dollars for a 12 inch pie.

Skyline Chili. Cinnamon chili, although there's other stuff in there besides cinnamon. I don't know if cinnamon chili originated in Cincinnati, but it's popular there. Skyline, Gold Star, diners in Cincy, etc. No beans, jalapenos, tomatoes, or anything visible except finely ground beef, water, and spices.

It looks about as unappetizing as chili can possibly look; more like a case of dysentery than anything for lunch. And the cinnamon, chocolate, and other spices are a little different. But it's good with spaghetti and about a half a pound of shredded cheddar cheese piled on top, or in a chili cheese coney.

Actually, best dish that gets you close to that cinnamon flavor: pastitsio. When I've had it at Greek restaurants, it has a cinnamon flavor to it as well.

jason10mm wrote: It's not a pejorative term at all, it's an acknowledgement that some games are great for teaching the inexperienced, are often still challenging to play, and have longevity in the hobby.

I think people are still willing to charge when others use it to mean games that are barely sufferable for teaching the inexperienced, not particularly challenging, and which don't hold anyone's interest long before they move on to better games.*

I see it as a useful term, maybe, to describe what you have described jason, or in that "what was your gateway" conversation. But the idea that people must take baby steps - and that those baby steps can then be dispensed with - is the one I think is silly.

And to be honest as well , "I love gateway games" is silly too, almost paradoxical. I love many of the games people call gateway games, for sure. But they're not "gateways" for me, because I've played them a stack of times. Could they be for others? Sure, but so could any game. Are they what Jason described? Yes, but if I use the term it doesn't really clarify that that's what I mean as opposed to how other people use it (i.e., dumb dumb game for baby gamers who haven't passed their learner test yet).

I am aware that largely this is a thing on online BGG discourse anyway, so it really doesn't matter. Most people won't have a clue what I'm talking about if I use the term. Which is just another point against it.


*it's also funny to see such usage of the term directed at really really excellent games, games that lean in hard to the strengths of boardgaming - keeping things analogue, straightforward in gameplay, and ramping up the above table interaction.

jason10mm wrote: a new player won't be at a huge disadvantage

That phrase is just code to me for the game's luck factor strongly outweighs it's skill factor. I do enjoy luck based games on occasion, but they better be quick. I don't want any luckfest to last longer than 20 minutes. Which is why adding expansions to Settlers of Catan just destroys it for me. Other than the one euro map packs you pick up at conventions, those actually improve the game because they reduce the time spent.

mtagge wrote:

jason10mm wrote: a new player won't be at a huge disadvantage

That phrase is just code to me for the game's luck factor strongly outweighs it's skill factor. I do enjoy luck based games on occasion, but they better be quick. I don't want any luckfest to last longer than 20 minutes. Which is why adding expansions to Settlers of Catan just destroys it for me. Other than the one euro map packs you pick up at conventions, those actually improve the game because they reduce the time spent.

I see it more that the strategies to win are not so obtuse, elaborate, or obvious in hindsight that a new player can deduce them from the rules almost as well as an experienced player.

That certainly can mean that it's all down to dice rolls or card draws, or it could mean that the game is simple or intuitive enough for any reasonably intelligent person to figure it out.

This is what makes a game like Caylus, Puerto Rico, or Dominant Species a bad gateway game. The rules dont really reflect the gsmeplay, especially if you don't have experience with those types of games. But Small World, Stone Age, or Catan I think are easier to grok your first play through.

mtagge wrote:

hotseatgames wrote:

Shellhead wrote: There are plenty of crappy things that are also popular, like White Castle hamburgers.

In my college days, there were two area fast foods I could only tolerate when drunk. White Castle, and Skyline.

Don't have a clue what Skyline is, but in my college town there was a pizza joint that made a horrible pie. Gumby's Pizza. It did soak up the booze well and was something like four dollars for a 12 inch pie.

Every college town has a joint like that. The delivery driver is your weed guy.

One persons gateway game is another persons frustration, LOL.

comicbook.com/gaming/news/mandy-patinkin-wingspan-board-games/

Betty Crocker is my go to gateway bake, sometimes Krustez for muffins.

No one but out dated grognards use Duncan Hines though, the savages.