FFG Asmodee Discussion

So, this talk of pushing out distributors from the "channel" leads to:

a) lower prices in FLGS
b) higher prices in OLGS
c) both of the above?

SuperflyTNT wrote: 100 bucks says this is a big kick in the balls to Alliance and the like. They're going direct. Smart move.

Except they are still using distributors like Alliance. They've just narrowed it down to 5 specific distributors. Seems like a better situation for Alliance to me.

Msample wrote: I think what you'll see s the price gap between OLGS and FLGS will narrow. FFG must have had their phones blowing up with CSI blowing out Armada core sets at 50% off the week before Christmas. This should put an end to that. I'd suspect 20% will be around the new norm for online pricing.

Yep. But some of the calls were routed to the "Merchant of Venus is 70% off direct from the publisher" voice mailbox, so apparently there's plenty of dumping opportunities to go around.

B&M stores don't make a damn bit of difference for one-off games. But for tournament games they're huge, and FFG has really pushed that part of their business line. I don't think this is just going to be a change in pricing policy, I think it's going to be a change in product line as well, and I wouldn't be surprised to see virtually all games embrace the component model in the future. It's as close as hobby gaming can get to a service economy model, and that's where the majority of the industrial economies are going (or have gone). I would not be surprised to see a product line go subscription in the next year. For all I know that may already exist in some of the minis games.

S.

I don't see a sudden shiftover to subscription/serial games occurring on a large scale. There's too much competition and too many games to choose from, and that's just another reason to ignore a game.

Netrunner is still a popular game, but it was full of buzz and everyone was playing it when it came out. A few years later and the community is still there, but most people I know who once played it no longer do. Why is that? Because it was too difficult to keep up with the periodic releases.

I'd still own Netrunner if it was on a once a year or once every 6 month release schedule. I'd still own Armada too if I didn't expect them to fleece me with expansions.

Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn is another subscription game from Plaid Hat, one with a much slower release schedule (quarterly I believe). Hasn't really taken off. Don't know anyone who plays it. People I've talked to avoided it 100% because it was an LCG with a subscription model. Don't even want to try it and risk liking it a lot because I don't want to be on the hook.

Most people I know can only be in one or two subscription games, and publishers shifting more of their focus on starting new lines will just be contending with themselves.

First time post, long time lurker.

If ANA wants to increase their prices, they'll just help their competitors. I already feel like the industry churns out too many games, and everyone has their own version of a deck building game, dungeon crawler, minis game, co-op card game, etc. So, if Kemet goes up in price, for example, I'll just get Blood Rage.

Overall, I don't think it will hurt them. Most people who walk into a FLGS and buy games don't think about price comparisons and getting it somewhere else. They'll be happy getting their mere 10-15% off retail on the latest Star Wars themed game for some instant gratification.

charlest wrote: Most people I know can only be in one or two subscription games, and publishers shifting more of their focus on starting new lines will just be contending with themselves.

Yeah, but those all-in customers, even if they only constitute a small market, drop a bucket of money on their chosen system each year. Selling a million copies of Exploding Kittens is great, but getting $400 out of every Magic player each year ain't bad either.

You (nor I) may not be the publisher's most lucrative market. We may also not be the most dependable. There's something to be said for knowing with 80% certainty that the next expansion you publish will cover its cost.

Varys wrote: First time post, long time lurker.

If ANA wants to increase their prices, they'll just help their competitors. I already feel like the industry churns out too many games, and everyone has their own version of a deck building game, dungeon crawler, minis game, co-op card game, etc. So, if Kemet goes up in price, for example, I'll just get Blood Rage.

The thing is, I bet ANA won't increase their retail prices. They'll let the sellers determine that. What they look to be doing is going to a tiered discount policy, with perhaps OLGS getting a higher wholesale cost than brick and mortar. So the CSIs of the world will either make even shorter margin than they do now, or raise their prices a bit.

I would be willing to be that the vast majority of FFG's revenue these days is tied to LCG/serial games like X Wing. These product lines are very prominent in retail stores, and for every BGG nerd rager who's screaming bloody murder that they might not be able to get it for 35% off, I'd be willing to bet there are many more out there who go to their FLGS and pay their $15 a month for whatever expansion for the series they are into. Yeah, I know some FLGS are worth fuck all, but the good ones out there drive a disproportionate amount of business in these game series I bet. These stores - the ones with full event calendars, play areas, etc are the CSIs and Miniature Markets of the retail world. And some of them do give discounts either in up front pricing or loyalty programs etc. If Asmodee can close the gap in street price between the better FLGS and the OLGS out there, I see their rationale. It may convince dealers reluctant to carry their products to give it a try with a smaller gap in pricing Does it mean I'll pay a bit more ? Sure, but I get the reason.

And contrary to the people losing their shit on BGG, there is no price floor being established. So they aren't going to suddenly paying full MSRP.

Msample wrote:

Varys wrote: First time post, long time lurker.

If ANA wants to increase their prices, they'll just help their competitors. I already feel like the industry churns out too many games, and everyone has their own version of a deck building game, dungeon crawler, minis game, co-op card game, etc. So, if Kemet goes up in price, for example, I'll just get Blood Rage.

The thing is, I bet ANA won't increase their retail prices. They'll let the sellers determine that. What they look to be doing is going to a tiered discount policy, with perhaps OLGS getting a higher wholesale cost than brick and mortar. So the CSIs of the world will either make even shorter margin than they do now, or raise their prices a bit.

They may not change their MSRP but if "street" prices change, that's what consumers will notice. The whole notion of a $40 game being really a $60 game with a 33% discount on it is largely marketing fiction, suggesting added value where there is none.

I gotta be honest, I think some of this is the publisher taking the bigger slice of margin that is available via online retailers. I don't have a problem with that. It's a tricky play because you need a game to catch fire in order for it to really be profitable, and price factors into that. But to some extent the publishers are leaving money on the table when they sell to the online publishers at the same price as the B&M retailers.

My new "local" game store provides discounting, though small, that is sufficient to make me purchase through them. Short of games getting free shipping for small orders the cost savings of online stores isn't sufficient to make me go that way.

If Asmodee goes onto Amazon Prime they'll own me.

Cool Stuff is a b&m store in Florida, is it not? So I'd imagine they'd be one of those stores that would have to agree not to sell online if they wanted to enjoy the in store support.

sagrilarus wrote:
If Asmodee goes onto Amazon Prime they'll own me.

I would not be surprised if Asmodee becomes the only authorized Amazon dealer.

Yeah, I don't know what it means ultimately. "FFG"'s model in the past couple of years has really been toward supporting lines of component-based products in established "universes." Many of these products have been good, but it's certainly been a less exciting and less innovative place (a trend which had already begun by the homogenizing of lines by so much inbreeding of house-favorite mechanics). So even if it does mean higher street prices, I'm not sure how much I'll care.

I do think that there's some risk of bursting their own bubble. I'll agree that the "1%" of BGG is not the be-all and end-all of sales, but it probably does help a lot in terms of creating buzz, influencing opinion, and "evangelization." Part of what's sustained FFG in that thought community has been the deep discounts and that FFG has survived/thrived in part by the bifurcated economy of selling at MSRP or near-MSRP to the casual customer and selling well below MSRP to the best informed/most dedicated. By bringing those two "worlds" into greater alignment, I don't think you drive up sales much for the casuals, for whom a few dollars less is not going to make a $100 board game (or $95, or $90) seem like anything but an extravagance while it will mean the diehards will be buying less and talking about ANA less. By making the most loyal customers start questioning the "value" of your items (and hitting them with a higher real-world cost, in all likelihood), you're risking losing both the dollars and the buzz of the "thought leaders."

One other thing this discussion on BGG highlights is the amount of transparency demanded/expected by the teeth gnashers as they light their torches in preparation to march on Roseville and burn down Christian Petersen's house . I am hard pressed to think of an industry where users demand to see dealer agreements ( as they type on their Apple devices, which I am pretty sure have similar dealer stratification and pricing guidelines as are often bemoaned on BGG ) .

That's a great point.

I'm not too concerned as paying a few bucks more for an unnecessary item of entertainment is really no big deal. There are more board games than one can buy anyway, so there's plenty of other titles to shop for within a given budget.

I wonder if the same folks are all routinely up in arms as they get fleeced monthly on their cable, electricity, phone, etc. bills...

Msample wrote: One other thing this discussion on BGG... similar dealer stratification and pricing guidelines as are often bemoaned on BGG ) .

The problem is that 99% of people have no idea how channel sales works in practice. They blissfully consume shit without the slightest idea how things get priced, how distributors/reps/dealers/retailers/online sales channels work.

It's easy to armchair quarterback shit. With the Web, everyone is an instant expert on everything and then they feel they have the right to spew forth venom in the name of righteous indignation despite their inability to explain even one facet of any of it.