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Stormcast Eternal Noob Problem

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03 Nov 2017 12:26 #256942 by __
Replied by __ on topic Stormcast Eternal Noob Problem
define "cheap" though? I am curious about airbrushes, but have literally no idea how they work, do they work on compressed cans or you set up your own mini compressor?

Feels kind of weird to me I was actively avoiding games with minis before due to paintaphobia but am now looking at games I'm not even that interested in just because they have cool minis.

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03 Nov 2017 12:45 #256944 by SebastianBludd

Tron wrote: define "cheap" though? I am curious about airbrushes, but have literally no idea how they work, do they work on compressed cans or you set up your own mini compressor?


I'm with you; I'm intrigued by airbrush kits for priming/basing but I don't know much about them and the word on most budget kits ($80 or so for a compressor with brush) is that the brushes are cheap and prone to break, so I would expect to budget about $100 total(?) for something decent.

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03 Nov 2017 13:01 #256947 by ThirstyMan
I don't think airbrushes are anywhere near as accurate as a fine craft brush.

For priming, a cheap spray can primer for less than $1 from Walmart is perfectly acceptable (as long as the process is done outside)

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03 Nov 2017 13:07 #256950 by barrowdown
Your most basic airbrush that is not complete garbage is going to be something like a Badger Patriot 105, which is usually around $70-80. However, if you are just looking for basing/priming the garbage brushes are probably not a terrible idea as you do not need any accuracy or fine control.

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03 Nov 2017 13:32 #256954 by SuperflyPete

Tron wrote: define "cheap" though? I am curious about airbrushes, but have literally no idea how they work, do they work on compressed cans or you set up your own mini compressor?

Feels kind of weird to me I was actively avoiding games with minis before due to paintaphobia but am now looking at games I'm not even that interested in just because they have cool minis.


I have an air compressor for construction, so that's the more expensive part. I got this:
www.harborfreight.com/deluxe-airbrush-kit-95810.html

Which works really well for what it is. I don't like venturi style ones, I like gravity ones. But, this does a fine job. If you want a tabletop compressor because you don't have a big one, there's this:
www.harborfreight.com/1-6-hp-40-psi-oill...ompressor-93657.html

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03 Nov 2017 13:34 #256955 by SuperflyPete

ThirstyMan wrote: I don't think airbrushes are anywhere near as accurate as a fine craft brush.

For priming, a cheap spray can primer for less than $1 from Walmart is perfectly acceptable (as long as the process is done outside)

Airbrushing on basecoats or primer is way faster and cleaner than brushing, hands down. It's a matter of practice and learning the intricacies of airbrushing. I do it because I'm in a cold area and it limits my painting to 5 months a year between the cold and humidity, so I use acrylics and airbrush them on instead of brushing. I can control the amount of material sprayed on THIN way more than using Krylon cans or even brushing from a pot. Less waste, too.
YMMV.

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03 Nov 2017 15:20 #256968 by Michael Barnes
OK, first of all- great work! You're on the way.

Second, the issue of color primers. They are GREAT in SOME cases. In others...not so much. I do not gold spray my Stormcast because I think it makes the OTHER colors sort of screwy. I just base black and do a couple of generous overbrush coats of Retributor Armor. Which is one of the best paints that GW makes- the color is awesome and it covers extremely well with a nice consistency. I wouldn't want to use anything but that on them. But yes, the Retributor Armor spray is like $25-$28- and it is actually like $10 more than GW's other Sprays. Is it worth it...believe it or not, maybe.

I use the Death Guard Green and Macragge Blue sprays on my DG and Ultramarines respectively. Yes, I could buy similar Krylon colors. But here's the thing. It's not so much the paint, but the delivery that matters. The nozzles on the GW sprays are freaking amazing. I don't know what they do differently. I have not tried a "hardware store" spray that goes on as well as these do. P3 is similar, bdut it is a different nozzle. The interesting thing is that both spray REALLY hard and you have to get quite a bit closer to the model then you'd expect.

Using them, the benefit is obvious- you get your primer and main basecoat color done in one step. This cuts down A LOT of painting time with models that are 75% one color. But there are lots of reasons why you wouldn't want to spray as well. I think for tabletop, you are usually OK with color spray. If you want a higher end paint job, I think you're better off with black, white or gray and the old fashioned way.

You mentioned the pots...the pots in those kits are much smaller than usual, and they do tend to dry up. If you buy a Citadel paint, you get a lot more and it's in a much larger pot. Lots of folks like the dropper bottle better, but I despise them. Yes, despise. I think they cause far more wasting and unlike the pots, you can not physically see the paint after shaking. So you'll sometimes squeeze out a big glop of medium with no pigment in it.

Paint in the ferrule...yeah, avoid that. When it does, just reset the brush with some water and reload it. If you can't get it out, use Pink Soap or Brush Restorer- it'll take it out.

Painting before assembly, yeah, sometimes you have to. But in general with most figures, I don't do that. If you can't paint it, usually you can't see it. But with some things you can't avoid it, like a Skaven Doomwheel. You have to paint the interior and then put stuff over it.

Sticking the models on bottle tops...I never do this. I just hold the base. I'm very lazy, actually. Citadel is putting out a neat new tool next week, they are calling it painting handle. It has like a clamp that you put the base in and then, well, a handle. It looks cool, I bought one. It was like $8.

Paint drying- acrylics dry FAST. This is why when you use a really small brush it seems like the paint suddenly disappears. Because it dried. And on the palette, it drys within minutes. There is a cure. It's called Retarder Medium. Vallejo makes one, but there are also varieties you can get at a craft store. You put a very small amount of this into a puddle of paint and it will stay wet longer. Granted, this also means that the paint stays wet on the model longer. But this can be a good thing if you are doing something like wet blending. It can also help with very fine layering..

A good rule of thumb about recess and areas behind shields- paint inside out. If you have to reach a brush PAST a painted area, you're doing it wrong. Paint the stuff inside, then you don't have to worry about messing up whatever is in front of it. There is an order of operations.

Priming is not simple. It takes some effort to do right, and it is the foundation for everything else you paint.

Airbrushes? Meh. I'm just not interested.
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03 Nov 2017 15:57 #256974 by __
Replied by __ on topic Stormcast Eternal Noob Problem
thanks for all the great advice. I got the gold wash on now, will do the blue one shortly. Maybe a bit disappointed that the wash didnt have as strong an effect as imagined (but its not fully dry yet), it was more darknening the whole thing, I didnt let it pool but on the other hand that meant I was wiping away the most obvious darker recesses a bit. In the GW video she stops there, but I think I will try and re add the gold onto the bigger more clearer areas at least. She also did not use a varnish which I will probably do, I got a matte brush on by Vallejo. I also got some dropper bottles of paint from them, and also ordered a few citadel "real" pots. Good to know the real ones arent so small!

I'll post the next pics and you can tell me if you think its worth doing stuff like getting a metal silver for the hammer head after all, or making the scroll bit on the side bone white, or trying to bone white the lighting bolts on the shield etc.

When I watch those amazing videos of the GW pro guys, I do however feel like sometimes those multiple layers of highlights and edge highlights dont really do anything noticeable (I'm sure a trained eye can see), and I reckon if I start fannying around trying to do edge highlights it just means smudged mistakes everywhere and a neverending loop of fixing mistakes

definitely very fun though, I have DOOM to paint and the first 3 D&D:AS, those minis are nowhere near as big and bold as these GW ones, I guess I will find out if that means less fun to paint or more easy to be a bit more casual about everything.
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03 Nov 2017 16:43 #256982 by Michael Barnes
Are you washing with Reikland Fleshshade? I'm guessing you are, that is the proscribed GW wash for Retributor Armor. It isn't going to be extreme. It's a reddish color usually used for Caucasian flesh tones, it makes the recessed areas of gold a little darker so that when you go back with either Retributor or Auric Armor Gold, you will see more of a pronounced effect.

You mentioned those lightning bolts earlier, and trying to paint around them. Don't do that. When you paint the shield, just paint the whole thing blue. Then, you will put the white on using a layering technique. When you have a raised detail like that, it is almost always best to paint the color around it without worrying too much about the raised part and then do the raised part afterwards. When I got my Stormcast last year, I was doing what you did and just beating my head against the wall on it.

White is the hardest color to deal with, BTW.

It is almost always worth it to do the extra colors like the scrolls and lighting bolts. Stuff like that really makes the model. I know in Emma's tutorial I think she doesn't do any of that. Which is fine, but the extra step makes a difference.

On the GW pros (especially Duncan)...here's the thing. GW has a specific style, and that is the multiple thin coats/wash/multiple highlight layers. Not everyone can, or should, paint that way. Their technique for most things, in general, is actually pretty difficult in that to get the results that they show you have to be a really damn good painter to begin with and have access to unlimited supplies and time. If you look at the photos of Astra Militarum Guardsmen for example, those little motherfuckers are painted like masterpieces. But NOBODY is going to paint them like that that is painting them to play the game. Because you'd have to paint at least 40-50 like that. When you see those 'Eavy Metal pictures, you have to keep perspective. Those are showcase, absolute best possible result models. It is easy to look at those photos and then look at your pieces and think "man, fuck this, I suck". I actually think they do a lot of rising painters a disservice by showing these models painted by folks with 20-30 years of experience and that are doing this as their job. It invariably sets an unrealistic expectation for yourself, and it sets you up to be disappointed. In time, you will learn to NOT be disappointed and instead focus on the things you got right and how cool your stuff looks in the game. There's always something you fucked up somewhere, but you will learn to be less critical of it and accept that you are painting custom, bespoke figures to the best of your ability.

You mentioned something about faffing around beyond your skill level...this is something that you will do a lot of at first. Sevej mentioned elsewhere here about setting a ceiling for your effort and I think that is great advice. If you don't feel confident to do wet blending, freehand insignias or extreme edge highlights...don't! Because you will get in that negative feedback loop where you fixing things until you've gobbed too much paint on the model.

A big part of learning all this is figuring out what you want to do and how you want to do it. You don't have to do the GW thing. If you like how a color looks with NO highlighting...then leave it alone! I actually rarely highlight metals. I don't layer skin in the GW way because I can never get it to work quite right. I just do what works for me. For example, I always throw on a light layer of Reikland Fleshshade over my skin stuff, after highlighting. I think it makes it look more even. It's not something that the tutorials say to do or that I read about online. I just like it and it works for me. So that's the lesson here- do what works for you. If you paint best with a fishtailed ass, 25 year old Armory paint brush using Folk Art paints...go for it!

You should really get the Citadel Painting App...it's a great resource, and it has built-in tutorials for the techniques. It also will help you picking colors, and there are model-specific paint schemes you can follow. Very nice.

Now, here's the thing about going to paint DOOM and D&DAS. You've ruined yourself with the GW models. When you move to those, you probably will not enjoy painting them as much. A crummy figure doesn't suddenly look better when it is painted. I find board game figures to be quite frustrating, really. But I do like "low stress" models. I just painted up a set of Astra Militarum Regimental Advisors (An Astropath, a Master of Ordnance and a Master of the Fleet). It's three old metal figures. I had been painting Death Guard, which are super detailed and complex. They are fun, but stressful. Painting these three little dudes was really refreshing. They are all once piece sculpts, and they were really pretty easy to paint. It was just enjoyable, and I was more casual about them- I just did one wash on all of them, an all-over Agrax Earthshade, and they look good. Since they were easier to handle than the Death Guard, I also experimented with a couple of things including the edge layering. All told, I think I spent only about two hours total painting them- and they are some of my better looking pieces.

Fun fact- that dude that starred in Baby Driver is apparently a two-time Golden Demon winner.
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03 Nov 2017 17:08 #256984 by __
Replied by __ on topic Stormcast Eternal Noob Problem
Yeah, I'm pretty relaxed about all this, to be honest, these are the first minis I ever painted so I am actually more gobsmacked that they dont look like shite. And that makes me feel like I dont have to shy away from games with minis thinking that they look a bit kak unpainted. With some of the boardgame minis, I am considering even just a primer/basecoat (even a spray), a wash and more or less monocolour, cos I think that looks pretty good and makes everything identifiable, then I'll probably just look at which minis might be worth drybrushing or highlighting or doing with different colours, but I'm more looking at making the process of turning an unpainted box of minis a somewhat fun, relaxing bit of faffing about without trying to take it too seriously. I have bought some Space Marine Intercessors to try, I am well fed up I dumped Space Hulk (like many games because of paintophobia).

Retributor Armor gold though is amazing, i love it, what a great colour and a great idea to base a starter kit on it

I think the lightest colour I currently have is Zandri dust, will that work to paint over the dark blue scroll? Unfortunately I dont have a lighter blue I could try a light drybrush on the tabard (unless I mix the blue with the zandri or something weird).

As soon as I get a silver colour (any good tips?) I will redo the hammer head to stand out

wait, I do have a ceramic white, is that too stark for the scrolls (even with the reikland wash over it?)

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03 Nov 2017 18:05 #256985 by __
Replied by __ on topic Stormcast Eternal Noob Problem




Well, I was happy with the results but OMG when you zoom in on the photos you see so much crapness haha. I will try to clean some of those things up but obviously I need a lens to see them. Theres no hiding from the zoom feature. Also I see how I still managed to put the gold on way too gloopy and thick in several places from the start. I was quite proud of getting the white bolts on the shield but the photos tell the truth of that lie hehe.

I'll try to tidy them up a bit and then put that weird cracked earth texture on the base which comes in the set.

then I will varnish it and hope that hides a few blotches. A brush on matt varnish should be OK? or gloss on the gold?
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03 Nov 2017 18:23 #256986 by barrowdown
First rule of painting minis: never look at photos of your own work.
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03 Nov 2017 18:40 #256987 by Michael Barnes
Yeah, especially with an IPhone camera. that thing sees - and magnifies - every imperfection.

They look good, the only C&C I would give you here is that they just need some more colors. It'll make a huge difference. Leadbelcher is all you need for the silver- paint the hammer head and the metal part inside the tabard. If you feel frisky, pick out the hammer icon on the belt with that. Zandri Dust is correct for the parchment- put it on, wash it, and you'll be surprised at how that embossed lettering stands out. Then you can just drybrush it with Zandri again and it will look good.

The hammer haft...I doubt that set comes with Screamer Pink, but that with some Nuln Oil on it looks great for that grip.

When you use the Agrellan Earth...it's sort of trickier than it seems. Put it on fairly thick, and use something like a coffee stirrer to do it. It'll look like total shit. But when it dries, it SHOULD do the cracking effect. If it doesn't, you didn't put enough on. You'll want to paint the rim of the base too- the GW standard is Steel Legion Drab. I use it for just about everything because I like neutral colors on the base that will work with anything.

Intercessors are quite a bit more advanced than Liberators. It doesn't seem like it, but they are pretty time consuming to paint. And they are less forgiving. Assembly is going to be a whole different thing for you too. When you assemble, make sure you read the rules so you understand the proper loadouts. You can make two sergeants and two squads of five, each with a different bolt rifle variant. That way, if you get into 40k, you won't have anything screwy. You will also get to dabble in waterslide transfers with those, which are...a fucking nightmare on Space Marine pauldrons. We'll get to that later though.

For those, I would definitely recommend the Macragge Blue Spray (if you are doing Ultramarines).

I really like that kit, but I have to say that my painting queue has a whole lot of Space Marines in it...I always seem to find something else to paint ahead of them.
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03 Nov 2017 19:35 #256993 by SuperflyPete
You’re looking good, brother! Great start.

Remember that nobody will be looking at your models with a loupe. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. It NEVER works out.

Try Tutofig.com for some tips. Best painting site on the web IMO.
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03 Nov 2017 20:16 #256994 by __
Replied by __ on topic Stormcast Eternal Noob Problem


I added some leadbelcher to break up the blue and gold. The scroll didnt turn out as well as I hoped, obviously I need to practice my drybrushing as I ended up washing it again to make it semi acceptable. I only had the drakenhof blue wash for the silver bits.

My kid is going to love them anyway and I'll check out some more of those tutorials and start to look at these D&D:AS minis, I found a few Youtube videos of people doing those exact minis

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