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× WELCOME TO TRASHDOME!

This is part of a series of bloody matches to the death. Show support for your favorite game so it will do better in the fight. You can support it by writing why you think its the better game and more importantly by betting (i.e. voting for) it. Please make it clear for when I check the bets later. You have until Friday when I tally the bets and declare the winner. I will reserve my bet for any tie-breakers.

Although you should be familiar with both games, there is no rule that says you have to have played both of them. The only rule in Trashdome is this;

Two games enter! One game leaves!

Wings of War/Glory vs Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures

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09 Jul 2013 23:24 #156187 by ChristopherMD

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10 Jul 2013 01:16 - 10 Jul 2013 01:20 #156199 by Sagrilarus
These aren't the same game?

S.
Last edit: 10 Jul 2013 01:20 by Sagrilarus.

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10 Jul 2013 01:52 - 10 Jul 2013 02:05 #156202 by Sagrilarus
Last edit: 10 Jul 2013 02:05 by Sagrilarus.

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10 Jul 2013 02:04 - 10 Jul 2013 02:05 #156204 by Sagrilarus


The video above shows the tremendous torque applied to the airframe of a Sopwith Camel by its Gnome 160 horsepower rotary engine. Rotary engines of the day weren't like modern "rotary" engines, the entire engine block spun while the pistons remained fixed.

That effect is modeled in Wings of Glory. Camels are exceptionally good at turning right, just as they were in real life. For me that brings weight to the play. That's an old man talking, but it's part of the mix for me.

From a pure gameplay perspective I find WofG is best with its most straightforward ruleset. X-Wing adds a lot of bits and pieces that didn't add much to the play for me.

All that said, they're remarkably similar in the core concept.

S.
Last edit: 10 Jul 2013 02:05 by Sagrilarus.

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10 Jul 2013 02:13 #156205 by SuperflyPete
As much as I love biplane and triplane combat, X Wing wins.

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10 Jul 2013 04:12 #156211 by Michael Barnes
World War I and II are for old men that smell like pipe tobacco and can't be bothered to change their Depends during The Military Channel's "Hitler Week". . Star Wars is for the kids and young at heart.

We're done here, close this one down.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Cranberries, SuperflyPete

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10 Jul 2013 05:17 #156214 by Mr. White

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10 Jul 2013 05:30 #156216 by Sevej
I'm sure those are staged shots.

X-Wing.

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10 Jul 2013 11:12 #156226 by Sagrilarus
So far the arguments for X-Wing are "I like it better" and "you wear diapers."

You guys are putting up one hell of a defense.

S.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SuperflyPete, wadenels

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10 Jul 2013 13:06 - 10 Jul 2013 13:08 #156230 by SuperflyPete
"X-Wing adds a lot of bits and pieces that didn't add much to the play for me.

All that said, they're remarkably similar in the core concept."

They're the same game, but Star Wars adds a little bit. Even the geriatrics who like WoW better are saying that X-Wing adds something.

So Less < More.

BUT....

Here's how it is:
-The stress tokens add the choice of doing a u-turn but being more vulnerable next turn, as well as limiting your movement.
-The choice of "Focus/Targetlock/Evade" adds the mental stress in deciding whether "you feel lucky, do ya, punk?" or whether you'll be conservative.
-The vast array of loadouts gives you a huge degree of variance between builds - you can have the same core ship models but have VERY different games based on how you load the ship, who pilots it, and the kind of strategy you wish to employ.

All in all, it's a better game from the "game" perspective as well as the "meta" perspective.

The only question people should consider isn't whether it's a better game or not, but whether or not they like the theme better. They are the same core game, really, but one game has better bits, more mechanics, and more variance. One game has old planes, and for people that really like old planes, that's the draw.

Again, STAR WARS X-WING > wings of war^3


FINALLY...

Sag, I think Michael has it all wrong. Those who play X-Wing for the first time wear depends as well...after all...with a game this great, I can see a little drip squirting out in excitement.
Last edit: 10 Jul 2013 13:08 by SuperflyPete.

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10 Jul 2013 14:08 - 10 Jul 2013 14:37 #156243 by Mr. White
Alright, since this was requested...

X-wing has more than WoG? That's only true in that X-wing has more in-game crap to deal with, but WoG has far more options and flexibility.

WoG allows complete customization of how deadly you want a game to be. Playing with first timers? Remove the explosion card from the deck. Prefer more deadly? Remove a few '0' cards. You can't control X-wing's dice like this.

WoG can be taught to anyone in 5 mins and they can grab a plane and play. It also scales to any number of players. X-wing is really just for two and _requires_ pre-game roster building. But wait! You can roster build with WoG as well if you wanted.

WoG has all the options to match X-wing and then some. Ace pilots, skills, altitude, ammo rules, tailing, varied plane/pilot damage, balloons, bombers, two-seaters, early war planes, observers, etc. Also, the scenarios are far more varied.

Regarding theme.

A Sag pointed out, the planes in WoG have unique movement decks to match the capabilities of the respective plane. X-wing ships all use the same rulers.

WoG planes _all_ look cool. Only two X-wing ships do. X-wing players have already talked about 'getting out' when the prequel and EU stuff drops whereas WoG is 10 years strong.

Star Wars doesn't reflect true space combat at all, but WWI/WWII dog-fighting in space. X-wing is a poser.



I'm not going to say anyone is having bad, wrong fun, but I'd like for us to be honest that X-wing is really only selling because of the theme. It's with that reason I find it hard to believe it would be GotY when there's been another game out there doing the same thing (better I'd say) for years.
Last edit: 10 Jul 2013 14:37 by Mr. White.

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10 Jul 2013 14:43 #156248 by SuperflyPete

Jeff White wrote: Alright, since this was requested...

X-wing has more than WoG? That's only true in that X-wing has more in-game crap to deal with, but WoG has far more options and flexibility.

WoG allows complete customization of how deadly you want a game to be. Playing with first timers? Remove the explosion card from the deck. Prefer more deadly? Remove a few '0' cards. You can't control X-wing's dice like this.


You can remove certain damage cards to tune the game to make it easier or harder.

WoG can be taught to anyone in 5 mins and they can grab a plane and play. It also scales to any number of players. X-wing is really just for two and _requires_ pre-game roster building. But wait! You can roster build with WoG as well if you wanted.


Dafuq? I sit down, build my squadron, and play. But if you want to go with stock ships, you can do the EXACT same thing with X-Wing if you want to dumb it down.

WoG has all the options to match X-wing and then some. Ace pilots, skills, altitute, ammo rules, tailing, varied plane/pilot damage, balloons, bombers, two-seaters, early war planes, observers, etc. Also, the scenarios are far more varied.

OK. I'll grant some of that.

Regarding theme.

A Sag pointed out, the planes in WoG have unique movement decks to match the capabilities of the respective plane. X-wing ships all use the same rulers.

This is indicative that you've not played the game much. Sure, they use the same rulers, but some ships don't have certain moves available to them on the wheels. So, not all X-Wing ships are alike, not even remotely.

WoG planes _all_ look cool. Only two X-wing ships do. X-wing players have already talked about 'getting out' when the prequel and EU stuff drops whereas WoG is 10 years strong.

Star Wars does't reflect true space combat at all, but WWI/WWII dog-fighting in space. X-wing is a poser.

Seeing as there's never, in the history of mankind, been space combat, I don't think either of us can say that. Sure, there's no 3D movement, although it's abstracted with collisions to a small degree. But the "only two X-Wing ships look cool" is a totally subjective statement. That's like saying all blondes are hot because you prefer blondes. Really? C'mon. That's a stretch that not even Mr. Fantastic could make.

I'm not going to say anyone is having bad, wrong fun, but I'd like for us to be honest that X-wing is really only selling because of the theme.

Again, blondes. Me, I would PREFER it to be a different theme. I didn't buy it because I go to Star Wars conventions wearing a wookiee hat. I bought it because it's fucking awesome.

It's with that reason I find it hard to believe it would be GotY when there's been another game out there doing the same thing (better I'd say) for years.


If you put faith in GOTY lists, chances are you're a little too invested. Because some husky preacher and his buddies say a game is great FOR THEM, it doesn't mean it's great for you. Why do you think I never did "Game of the Year" lists? Because they're a waste of digital paper.

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10 Jul 2013 14:55 - 10 Jul 2013 14:56 #156250 by Mr. White

SuperflyTNT wrote:

A Sag pointed out, the planes in WoG have unique movement decks to match the capabilities of the respective plane. X-wing ships all use the same rulers.

This is indicative that you've not played the game much. Sure, they use the same rulers, but some ships don't have certain moves available to them on the wheels. So, not all X-Wing ships are alike, not even remotely.


What?! My statement is 100% true. I didn't say they have the same moves, but the ships in X-wing all share the same rulers. WoG has _different_ types of moves based on plane model

WoG planes _all_ look cool. Only two X-wing ships do. X-wing players have already talked about 'getting out' when the prequel and EU stuff drops whereas WoG is 10 years strong.

Star Wars does't reflect true space combat at all, but WWI/WWII dog-fighting in space. X-wing is a poser.

Seeing as there's never, in the history of mankind, been space combat, I don't think either of us can say that. Sure, there's no 3D movement, although it's abstracted with collisions to a small degree. But the "only two X-Wing ships look cool" is a totally subjective statement. That's like saying all blondes are hot because you prefer blondes. Really? C'mon. That's a stretch that not even Mr. Fantastic could make.


THIS IS TRASHDOME!

It's with that reason I find it hard to believe it would be GotY when there's been another game out there doing the same thing (better I'd say) for years.


If you put faith in GOTY lists, chances are you're a little too invested. Because some husky preacher and his buddies say a game is great FOR THEM, it doesn't mean it's great for you. Why do you think I never did "Game of the Year" lists? Because they're a waste of digital paper.


Not faith in them, but bewildered how this would be considered GotY. Legomancer has spelled it out though. We nerds have a hard time being critical when it comes to a genre theme we're supposed to love. Look, I like A New Hope as much as the next guy, in fact I'm a 'Battle of Yavin _only_' guy when it comes to X-wing, but I recognize that WoG is the game that X-wing came from and that without WoG (much like without WWI aircombat) X-wing wouldn't be what it is. I'm not blind to the SW theme.
Last edit: 10 Jul 2013 14:56 by Mr. White.

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10 Jul 2013 15:07 #156251 by VonTush
Since I'm the person that requested I'll throw in my two cents...And I should note that I haven't played Wings of Glory yet, but below summarizes why I decided that both had a spot on my game shelf:

-Wings of Glory I really like the scaling aspect, both in terms of rules and players. The A La Carte approach to the rules allows players to add as much or as little as they want. The basic rules can be taught quickly and seem to be fun as well. Then if players want more they can add more like ground defenses, bombers, pilot skills, altitude and the game to be truly tailored to suit the players and what they want - So it really is a sandbox approach. And it seems more adaptable to multiple people where each person gets a few planes and have a go at a dogfight. I've heard games with dozens of people at conventions, and the game is still playable where dozens of players with X-Wing would likely take days. (WoG)

-X-Wing I really like the point/squad-building aspect. As I've stated elsewhere my intro to gaming was miniature games so I really enjoy filling up 100pts, thinking of combos, putting together themed lists and theorizing about attack plans. But with WoG being able to just grab two or three planes per side and start playing is pretty awesome. (X-Wing)

-Wings of Glory I love the color and design of the planes and models. The metal body adds a nice heft and feel to the model and the bright and vibrant colors really make it interesting to look at. The X-Wing models are nice, but without repaints there is no difference between the same model type. (WoG)

-The cards in WoG gives the same effect as the dials in X-Wing. But the cards allow for variations for each plane for movement distances and turning radius giving each plane a distinct feel. Where in X-Wing all ships select from the same 11 movement templates. I have played around with the card movement in WoG and I must say it is a bit more fiddly sliding the cards in and out from under the base, so I like X-Wing as far as movement execution, but WoG as far as differences in maneuverability variety. (WoG)

-Dice...I love them, X-Wing has them and Wings of Glory does not. The card damage deck in WoG though really does a great job of simulating all sorts of damage tables to create a wide variety of damage without much fuss, but flipping a card will never be as exciting as rolling dice. (X-Wing)

-The theme...Now this I think is the big difference. As has been mentioned by others, for the most part the gameplay is very similar between the two games. The Star Wars theme is an easier sell. You have movies that many, many people have seen and can relate to. The mono, bi and tri planes of the early 1900's...Much, much fewer people relate or are even aware of them. (X-Wing)

-The history factor is something that is pretty awesome with WoG. It is interesting to read about The Flying Circus, who Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen was and why he has become iconic. Why planes fly and react the way they do. Whereas I have no urge at all to read about Jek Tono Porkins or the theoretical flight limitations of a Y-Wing. (WoG)

So where does my vote go? I have played X-Wing but not WoG so by default I feel like my vote should go there. But looking at the seven points above it is split 4 to 3 in favor of WoG. And since I don't want to puss out and seeing as how I tend to favor the underdog I'm going to vote for Wings of Glory.

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10 Jul 2013 15:21 - 10 Jul 2013 15:23 #156253 by eekamouse
X-Wing doesn't "require" two players. I actually play it more often with 2v2 or even 4v4. Everyone takes a ship and goes. It's not ideal, but it's still a blast.

It's perfect when you have 10 people lined up saying, "OMF... I want to play!" And, it's an easy way to give noobies a random ship of their choice. If someone gets eliminated early (first or second turn), we just re-spawn them. If it's after that, they can stay around and help their team.

Actually the team rules in the rulebook are just about the dumbest thing I've ever read. Here are the rules in question.

Players on the same team may strategize against their opponent(s). Players are free to discuss any information with teammates (and opponents), but all discussion must take place in public (i.e., their opponent(s) must be able to hear all discussion). Also, teammates cannot show each other the maneuver chosen on their dial(s).


We do the exact opposite of that statement in every way. It's not as thematic because we don't have Tie Fighters flying straight into each other, but it's more fun.
Last edit: 10 Jul 2013 15:23 by eekamouse.

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