Alien, Aliens, Alien3, Alien Resurrection, Etc

It's time to come clean about the Aliens franchise.

I've watched them all over the past couple of days, mostly while playing Legendary Encounters. And here is how they rank:

Alien- Awesome!
Aliens- Awesome!
Alien 3- Fucking Terrible!
Alien Resurrection- REALLY FUCKING TERRIBLE!

And that's without digging into the shit-pile that are the Alien versus Predator movies.

I revisit Alien 3 every so often just to make sure I still think it sucks...I remember seeing it in the theater and being just brutally, crushingly disappointed...maybe more so than I ever have been by any other movie ever. It just felt like everything went wrong with it, despite having a cool setup, a good director and an interesting visual style. But it's just not good. It's kind of like staring into dirty dishwater. Oh, the 90s.

But GOD DAMN, Alien Resurrection...I kind of grudgingly liked it back in '97, at the time I railed against it being written by the guy that wrote Buffy the Vampire Slayer (and later The Avengers) but I had read the original screenplay (the one that had a character written for Chow Yun-Fat) and thought it sounded good. And Jean-Pierre Jeunet! Marc Caro! Darius Khondji! Jean-Paul Gaultier! Winona Ryder! And it sucked!

It is one of the most awkward, mis-directed and tonally bizarre Hollywood movies I've ever seen. There is no clear vision guiding the film and it shows. Jeunet hated working on it, hated working in Hollywood and couldn't speak English. And it shows. There's a weird, almost comic tone to it that isn't even the usual Whedon smirk. The Xenos are WAY too slimy, the point where they're laughable (they were NEVER slimy like this before, like they were dunked in motor oil or something). Brad Dourif acts just as weird as he did in Dune. And that alien baby...

I traditionally thought of 3 as the "bad" one and regarded Resurrection as "kind of OK", but I realized, after looking at the surface of the DVD compared to the Alien and Aliens DVDs in the box set, that I had not actually seen that one since maybe like 1999, 2000 or so. Revisiting it was not pleasant, obviously.

I think the thing about Alien 3 is that it is terrible but it is at least ambitious. Which makes it more of a spectacular train wreck than a grinding, miserable failure.

Alien 3 was, for me, the most disappointing movie of all time. Worse than Phantom Menace even. Aliens was my favourite movie for years and to just kill off Hicks and Newt like that... man...

I don't understand people that think Alien: Ressurection is watchable. I think they have crushes on Ron Perlman and that's the only reason. Did you ever see the director's cut? The ending is insanely different. They land on Earth I think.

I can respect putting Alien ahead of Aliens in rankings but for me Aliens is the cat's pyjamas. Both movies are TOP tier for their genres. Alien is still one of (if not THE) scariest movie of all time. Aliens is just an insanely fun blend of action and sci-fi, with a little gore and horror but barely. They even showed the clip where Ferro gets pwned at the Oscars for crying out loud. I rewatched the Terminator recently and it was eerie how similar the Hunter Killers move around just like the Sulaco dropship. That James Cameron is loyal to his special effect models.

As bad as Alien 3 and Resurrection are, it's hard to believe that the AvP movies are infinitely worse. I think you gotta throw Prometheus into this ranking too, no? Really looking forward to the second one. My order:

Aliens
Alien
Prometheus
Alien: Resurrection
Alien 3
AvP
AvP Requiem (SO FUCKING BAD)

Really hope to see another great Alien(s) movie one day.

I dunno...I kind of like Alien 3. Obviously, it's not as good as Alien or Aliens, but it's better than a lot of sci-fi action flicks. I'd call it 'good' rather than 'fucking terrible'.

I dug the penal colony setting, seeing the xeno genespliced with a non-human, and it felt like the film was an attempt to bring some horror back into it. Yeah, killing of Hicks and Newt right off was a downer, but I think the biggest problem the film had is that it could only be steps down after the incredible first two. I mean, if Alien is an awesome horror film and Aliens is an awesome action film, what's left for Alien 3 to be but a disappointment?

It's also why I don't really want to see another Mad Max film. No way will it hold up to Fury Road. As it stands the Mad Max franchise as a whole is fantastic and not filled with crap like the Aliens, Predator, and Terminators franchises are.

EDIT: since this talk on the Aliens franchise is more than just 'what movie have you seen?' should it be its own thread?

I actually just watched Alien 3 the other night.

It's biggest sins are that it's predictable and boring. It's also one of those films that has could have been good if it weren't for studios trying to tinker around with shit. Reading the history of that film getting made is mind boggling. There were talks of making the third one about Hicks and putting Ripley in the background...only to bump up Ripley's role in the 4th one. The studio didn't have the balls to do anything like that and insisted on Weaver returning and being the focal point. The script went through a ton of writers, directors, revisions. They spent like 8 million on sets that they never used!

The end product isn't completely shit...it's fine. But compared to Alien and Aliens it seems awful. While watching it I nearly dozed off a couple times which is rare for me.

The "assembly cut" of Alien 3 is my favorite Alien movie

The first two Alien movies are amazing beyond dispute.

Alien 3 is almost as disappointing as Prometheus. The premise was interesting, and they cast an actual convicted killer (Charles Dutton) as one of the convicts, because he was also a talented Broadway actor. And director David Fincher went on to do some great movies: Se7en, Fight Club, and Zodiac. Unfortunately, Dutton delivered a subdued performance and Fincher was learning on the job.

Alien: Resurrection also had potential, with some decent cast members and a director who did better work before and after this movie. Oh, and it was written by Joss Whedon. But the cast didn't gel, the script was clunky, and the director's continental style didn't translate well into either action or horror. There is an underwater sequence with great cinematography that must have been a bitch to shoot. And I can sort of enjoy this movie now because the team of mercs feels like a dark reflection of the crew of the Serenity, from Firefly.

I skipped the AvP movies.

Prometheus is maddening. The movie looks great, but the story falls off the rails before the end of the first hours, into a realm of utter stupidity. They shouldn't have hired the lead writer from Lost. Hopefully they ditch him when they get to the inevitable sequel.

Yeah, I'm really interested in that "Assembly Cut" of 3...Apparently it was put together by a guy that worked on a couple of behind the scenes/making of documentaries that had access to the original production notes...so it's "kind of" the original vision for the film, at least as Fincher initially laid out. It's supposedly a markedly better, more cohesive picture. What disc/collection is that on? I'll buy it tonight if it's at Target or Best Buy.

I keep going back to 3 because it seems like SOMETHING is there worth seeing, despite 25 years of disappointment..it's hard to not resent the movie after Aliens...shit, I remember the first trailer- pretty much just a black screen, a star field, cracking egg- ALIEN 3. That was really the first "teaser" like that that I can remember. And even it was disappointing!

So maybe this version gets to what I keep thinking is there under the surface, somewhere.

The reaction to Prometheus continues to baffle me...there was nothing "terrible" about that movie, and it was in some sequences really quite good. I stand by what I said before- that movie, released before the internet, would have been hailed as a classic. Post-internet, it's torn to shreds by people who for whatever reason suddenly switch on this HYPER critical "everything in this science fiction movie makes no sense and would never happen in reality" mode.

Wanted to see how difficult it would be to break off conversations into their own threads.

Michael Barnes wrote: The reaction to Prometheus continues to baffle me...there was nothing "terrible" about that movie, and it was in some sequences really quite good. I stand by what I said before- that movie, released before the internet, would have been hailed as a classic. Post-internet, it's torn to shreds by people who for whatever reason suddenly switch on this HYPER critical "everything in this science fiction movie makes no sense and would never happen in reality" mode.

The opening sequence with the large humanoid is riveting, and the better part of the first hour is great. The only jarring notes at that point are the angry, stupid, scientist-husband guy, and the totally bizarre betrayal of him by the otherwise very civilized and responsible android.

After that, there is an avalanche of stupidity. Just off the top of my head and a single viewing:

1. A scientist can't freaking wait five seconds before yanking off his helmet. What? Did he cheat his way to a PhD, or is he simply so goddamn stupid that he will risk his life on exposure to unknown alien toxins or even germs? I can visualize the actor's agent on the sidelines, urging him to break character and yank off the helmet so people can see his face again, but from a story standpoint, it was bullshit.

2. The explorers have this really cool 3D mapping software, both brilliant and immediately obvious to viewers in how it works. And the early mapping indicates that the basic layout of this place includes one long perimeter hallway that starts and ends at the entrance. And these two guys operating it manage to get lost. Completely, desperately lost. Is the equipment malfunctioning? Nope.

3. Star of the movie gives herself an emergency c-section to get an alien parasite out of her body. Instead of nearly collapsing in shock or exhaustion or something, she gets up and runs around just fine. That's some fancy medical hardware, I suppose.

4. Star of the movie is supposedly a scientist, but almost nothing she says or does is scientific. Instead, she sounds extremely religious. Uh, okay.

5. Explorers discover and bring back an intact alien head. Do they start with non-invasive scans and tests, then maybe collect tissue samples? No, they hook the damned thing up to a car battery and do stupid shit with galvanic muscle response, just like a couple of 12-year old boys might do in a lab when the teacher isn't watching. This was a really stupid nod to a cool scene that made sense in the original Alien movie.

6. Huge object is clearly falling in a specific direction. Does Charlize Theron's character run in a different direction? No, she attempts to run an extremely long distance in the exact same direction as where the falling object is falling towards.

These are not recitations of complaints that I read online. These are about half the complaints that I came up with while talking to my friend right after the movie. And I'm not normally a guy who nitpicks movies for minor lapses in logic or detail or whatever. If a movie is at least okay, I'm more than willing to lift suspension of disbelief and suspend judgment until the end. But Prometheus was a poorly-written movie, despite fine actors in the cast, including Noomi, Idris, Charlize, and Guy. And Prometheus looks great. The next time I watch it, I intend to turn off the volume and put on some good music, in order to avoid at least some of the stupidity.

When I saw Prometheus in the theater, it was nearly packed. Halfway through the movie, some old boomer guy in the back started heckling the movie. He was too loud to be just sharing jokes with his friends, and at least half the people there were close enough to be disturbed. And his heckling didn't represent any specific criticisms of the movie, it was more along the lines of really dumb, lame jokes. I blame MST3K. Anyway, I started to get really mad at the heckler, and even yelled at him to shut the fuck up. I was probably minutes away from taking action, though I hadn't decided if I was going to go get an usher or just confront the dumbass directly. But during those minutes, I started to realize that Prometheus kind of sucked, and I didn't care enough to do anything about the heckler after all.

This discussion brings to my mind a thought I often have which is tangential but related to the main topic.

The thought is this: Sometimes a story ends.

This is a hard thought and concept for the modern movie and fiction world to grasp. Not every, or really any, fictional setting needs to be a "franchise". Good story telling should have a conclusion. There is of course the financial drive of studios and writers to cash in on the desire of humans for what is familiar. It's got to be less work and a certain level of success is almost guaranteed but there are certain IP's that go above and beyond this.

Alien is one of them. In the realm of story, the first two make sense. First, finding the creatures and then sending a military team back to investigate after the lone survivor returns to Earth. The End. Full Stop. No more.

But we are so in love with the greatness of the first two we don't let it end. No, we get several movies we claim are disappointments. But what did you really expect? Sort of reminds me of getting back together with an old girlfriend. Man, it was so good once...it was great...it can be great again....right? Nope. Not usually.

Artists are no less to blame than consumers though. Take George Martin for example. His Ice and Fire saga goes on and on and on spinning it's wheels and getting no where for no other reason than that he can't bear to see it end. I think the revenue stream it generates for him is one reason but I think on a deeper level he can't bear to bring his "magnum opus" to an end. It's too dear to him and there are only a rare few that would argue the quality of the story hasn't dropped like a stone in the last several installments.

I'm no saint either. Star Wars is coming and if there was ever a story that could have and should have ended with the redemption of Vader it is that. Yet I'm excited to see it. Will I be disappointed. Probably...but maybe...maybe...it can be great again.

I agree with Mr. White and actually don't mind Alien 3. Like Prometheus, it's not nearly as good as Alien/Aliens, but it's enjoyable on its own.

Repoman is correct. I'm not a fan of sequels or long serials at all.

I don't read stories such as The Wheel of Time or Song of Fire and Ice, I'm not into games that put me on a treadmill, I don't watch shows with more than two seasons, and I don't care for many movie sequels after the first. Sure there are rare exceptions, but overall give me one and done stories, movies, and games.

I understand studios and companies keep it going for money, but even as a 'fan' I have a point. Outside of Alien, Mad Max, and Raimi's Spider-man, I'm not sure there's a franchise that I like more than one film out of.

Well...except one. Like Repo, I also have a kryptonite...all those damn Jackson Middle Earth films...

An interesting video about Alien 3. I don't agree with it, but it's very well done.

jeez, i would have hated to be in the same film class as that guy

i don't know about that abortion thing at the end. She's not trying to get it out of her (like the thing in prometheus), she's trying to die.