Value-add to faith

Mr. Barney,

I am so sorry you are suffering like this. I appreciate your message. I don't think it would hurt to say a little prayer for guidance once in a while if you feel like it. There is lots of love and help in this thread, and one of the tenets of my faith is that God uses us to answer prayers. I haven't solve the problem of evil yet either. The closest I get is the ending of "Time Bandits."

Although I am a practicing member of a Western American Christian cult, I take truth from wherever it resides. So my backup religion, or at least what I read for comfort when I get too wired on my own superego, is American Zen Buddhism. That stuff just loosens the vice of ambition so I can breath a little. I get atheism--it's a rational choice.

Family, friends, health--there's not much else in this shitty, fallen world.

Oh, try some good St. John's Wort. It's my favorite free ride.

Wanted to add my voice to the rally cry of those here - seems like everyone's either been through it themselves or knows someone who has. That right there is key as you are not alone at all in this (esp. with a beautiful kid).

And if you're seeing merit in those who "have faith," you need not be jealous - you'll come to a better place with it all in some fashion. Whether attending an established church every Sunday or reading spiritual books and meditating. It's all a journey and, at least virtually, those here are with you on this leg as well as the next!

All the best!

Gash! I lost a big post and two small posts.

Just wanted to say there's a lot of wisdom in this thread. I find similarities in my own experience to some of your stories, and I have much respect for those of you that went through worse, I don't know how you did it.

Posted this this morning and then got surprise thrown under the bus accidentally on purpose by my ex. Thank goodness for this thread which immediately lifted me back up with your kind thoughts, prayers and shared stories.

I'm confident there will be brighter days ahead, I don't doubt it. Just need to get there.

Jeez Barney. I'm sorry to hear that. And you're right... I lost my wife last year (illness) and as hard as that has been, I can see where divorce is harder in many ways. There can be betrayal and other feelings that are going to persist, and you still have to interact and deal with sharing the kids and all that. I have a girlfriend now who has been divorced twice. She's great, but I know there are some pretty deep resentments and trust issues under the surface. Hang in there, brother. As the platitudes say, this too shall pass and it will get better with time if you can work through the resentment and pain and loss and move forward a day/hour/minute at a time.

As far as the faith thing, go straight to the source. I'm a practicing Mormon, but I don't believe that any person or institution has any kind of exclusive reach to divinity. If it's really there (only you can know that for yourself), it will manifest in a way that means something to you. Seek and ask in faith (demand, even) and you'll find what you need. To quoth the sage Lennon, "Whatever gets you through the night."

First, I send my love and prayers to you for whatever worth you can find in them.

I have never been through anything like that so I can't claim to understand, but I know that for me it would be very difficult. My wife makes me a much better person and I know that without her around I'd just be getting high all the time and drinking beer non stop... that might sound pathetic but I remember what I was like before my wife and child came along. It wasn't very pretty... maybe it was youth, but still, she inspired change in me.

But you have a daughter now... you have a daughter.

Is there anything better than that? Before your marriage you had neither a daughter nor a wife and you were probably (?) fine... now you have a daughter. That's awesome!

As a child of divorce I know that the actual breaking up of my parents wasn't that big a deal to me (although it did cause some internal conflict) but the aftermath of how they acted pisses me off to this day. They don't talk to each other and I feel like if I visit one I have to visit the other one next, struggling to keep balance so that neither one thinks I'm preferring them. It's a minor thing and I don't normally bring it up but I think that if I (heavens forbid) went through something like that I would be considering that aspect, because it's never ending.

I have faith (no church though, for me faith and religion are private affairs), but I don't find it very useful in moments like this anyway. Faith isn't something I can lean on, or choose, it's something I have through no fault of my own. I see and feel that there is more than we can explain and it feels connecting and loving to me... I can't help that it's just who I am. I even think that faith is an illogical thing to have, but I have no intention of running my life based on logic anyway, it's just one tool and there are plenty of others just as useful to me. Faith included. Reading Taoist literature has been useful to me in times of stress though, there is something about the absurdity of existence that it amplifies and allows me to stop worrying and see the humour in the horrible.

I would recommend meditating though. Or some form of prayer (ultimately I don't think they are very different). Meditation has been a real boon to me personally and has helped me get some control over my life that I might not have otherwise. It connects me to something larger than myself and helps me escape being trapped in my head all the time. Although it's probably just another form of that, it still feels very different. You don't need any faith or religion for that either, you can pray/meditate without it.

In any case my advice is not very useful, I'm aware of that, but I am at your disposal should you need it anyway.

Love to you and yours, hold your daughter tight, but carry on with your life too. She is watching how you handle stress. I know I did.

Find a way to turn your pain into something beautiful. The best gift I've ever had was the guitar my parents gave me when I was 15. I've wailed over my loneliness and loss for 25 years, saving me thousands of dollars in counseling. Playing some of those songs immediately takes me back to a dark place that I've come out of.

It doesn't have to be music, it can be any form of expression: sing, dance, paint, write and above all love. Love your daughter, love your friends. The will love you back. And someday you will find somebody new to love.

Take care

Barney, I have lots of advice (most of it terrible) so I'll just offer big hugz instead.

P.S. The entrails from this toad tell me your future is very bright. I promise.

I do have my faith, but I'm not the most religious person (still like skipping mass ).

Sometimes I think religion is the great sedative. So many bad things can happen to you at random times (say, a random car or some genetic disease hit you, or, worse, someone you love) that sometimes it can drive me crazy. I know logically such things have very low occurrence, but really what's stopping me from being nuts is that I believe some sort of higher being won't allow it. When it does happen anyway, I can say I believe in His plans. It's sort of crazy, me being like very logical person and faithful at the same time.

Also there's this thing I read back then... that it's easier to prove if God existed or not. I wasn't sure if that's true, but then our latest awesome pope said evolution is not a bullshit. The crazy thing about this is that everything is connected by Michael Crichton novels... that evolution is not a random thing. Millions of years of evolution at we suddenly popped out of nowhere, with no planet of the apes either. A random evolution would be like throwing random ingredients on a pot and hope something come out of it other than heap of trash. Either someone wrote a super awesome program to living creatures' DNA triggered 30,000 years ago or someone is directly playing with evolution...

Sorry didn't mean to be so preachy, but F:AT is the best place to discuss odd things like this (and also for parenting guidance!)

Best of luck to you Barney. I can't say I know how you feel. I've been through some really bad things that I forgot my faith, so it's kind of awesome that you discover your spirituality.

The cynical part of me (quite a large part) wants to warn you against religion mongers - they'll try to get you while you're at your weakest. But as witnessed in this thread so far, faith can be a great comfort in tough times, so who am I to judge.

Nevertheless JonJacob nailed it when talking about your daughter. I have no bad breakups behind me, but I am the child of an ugly divorce and I firmly believe that keeping your kid out of your (relatively speaking) petty differences is paramount. Yes, things will be different and difficult for all of you, but she'll never stop being your daughter so I sincerely hope you can make it work.

best of luck.

my wife is the child of an incredibly amicable divorce, or at least (as is common here), both parents worked hard to make it easy for her, such that she grew up being incredibly close to both her parents and them sharing many family experiences together even after marrying other people. So another thumbs up from me for you being strong enough to do everything you can to find a solution that works for your daughter.

Big hugs from me anyway man, you're pretty obviously one of the nice guys here (amongst many). As a 'somewhat optimistic agnostic' I find myself moving in the same direction as you and being envious of people with real faith. I have nothing but utter contempt for religion in all its forms, but I feel like the vast majority of that actually has fuck all to do with what's important to people who really have faith in something. And even as a scientist I still find it staggering that educated people can still be so utterly blasé when trying to describe what we are and where we came from and how it all happened in terms like "its just x, y and z". If you stop to think about it for a second, everything is mind boggling to the power of mind boggling. And thats just the bit you can start to try and comprehend. Still, the nihilist in me thinks fuck it, we'll all be grains of sand soon enough so that takes the pressure off from trying to find the right answers for everything

Well damn, Black Barney, that's bad news. Sorry to hear that, my friend.

But here's the rub. One thing I have NEVER heard anyone say that has gone through a divorce (myself included) is:

"OMG, I should never have gotten divorced, what a mistake!"

If it gets to that point, it's done and isn't meant to be anyway- despite what you might feel

As for the religion angle...I am 100% anti-religious, so it's really best that I don't get into any of that here (at least not when it isn't Friday). But I am 100% spiritual. My Gandalf-like advice to you on that front is to find where YOUR spiritual center is, this is a golden opportunity to do so.

When I was going through divorce 15 years ago, I found where I was spiritually centered. Where "God" is, for lack of a better term. I am NOT EVEN going to get into it here because frankly, it's very private and personal. But I will say this. I was with my sister, who is an evangelical religious fanatic, on her farm. She and her husband have a beautiful piece of land with horses, pigs, chickens, goats and just some wonderful environs. I have always kind of antagonized her a little, saying things like "I have more in common with witches than with preachers". But she was asking me to come to her church one day while I was helping her give her horses some hay. I said "No, because we're in the only church that is real right now."

That's something I never would have said when I was married that first time, because I was nihilistic, totally atheist and without a spiritual grounding. Getting out of that relationship is what actually enabled me to find faith and meaning. It was a HORRIBLE time, don't get me wrong, but it was also a BEAUTIFUL time. I got my first tattoo then- the rorschach from Watchmen. Because of a couple of personal, philosophical reasons but also because of what it represented in the book. You can look at it and see a dog with its head split open, as Rorschach does, or you can look at it and see a butterfly. It's your decision. People ask me all the time what it is, I just say it's an inkblot.

Best to you, man...take care of that little girl, that's job #1.

Black Barney, sorry to hear your in such a tough spot now. Project yourself into the future but live for your daughter now and be kind to yourself. one day, you'll look back and realise the pain has subsided. and you'll meet someone else along the way. hang out with friends, go to Habs games, don't eat pizza or poutine or Harveys all the time Best wishes, man.


"OMG, I should never have gotten divorced, what a mistake!" - that's a CK Louis line, Barnes! But true.

Someone once said that great marriages never end in divorce. I think that really sums it up perfectly. Over the past few weeks I've come to accept it and have mourned the loss of this relationship. Since she left I've focused more on Emily than I have ever before and I know it's made be a better father. I actually think she'll turn out better now since she'll grow up with happier parents instead of witnessing a warped sense of love.

I love you guys and your words are really heartfelt and help me feel better. I am always in a better place when I read this thread.

For those of you that have been through this, I was hoping to get advice on something that is becoming very problematic for me. For at least a week now, I've been waking up at five in the morning and instead of just falling back asleep as I've normally done, my first thought is of my ex and her new beau. That I'm in a bed alone and she's not. The thoughts then devolve into worse things and I become stressed and can't possibly fall asleep again. It's an awful way to start each day. I've been able to come to terms with most other aspects of this tragedy in my life and can reason my way out of bad thoughts. But this.... I can't seem to calm myself or relax or think my way up and out of that hole.

Is it just time that will heal it and eventually I won't care anymore? Or is there some perspective that I'm missing?

Thanks again guys from the bottom of my heart.

Man, I don't know about that last part. I jumped right into a relationship after I told my ex I wanted out. And I know she's dealt with that because I'm with someone and she is not. I feel guilty as fuck for that.

To be honest with you guys, I constantly think that I fucked up and shouldn't have gotten divorced. Like I moved too fast and should have thought things through. And I constantly wonder if I can go back and fix it. I have a really good life now and I'm generally happy but my guilt of hurting her fucking kills me.

Black Barney wrote: For those of you that have been through this, I was hoping to get advice on something that is becoming very problematic for me. For at least a week now, I've been waking up at five in the morning and instead of just falling back asleep as I've normally done, my first thought is of my ex and her new beau. That I'm in a bed alone and she's not. The thoughts then devolve into worse things and I become stressed and can't possibly fall asleep again. It's an awful way to start each day. I've been able to come to terms with most other aspects of this tragedy in my life and can reason my way out of bad thoughts. But this.... I can't seem to calm myself or relax or think my way up and out of that hole.

I went through this many years ago, after breaking up with a cheating girlfriend. Friends told me that the best way to begin to move on was to get laid. I tried the bar scene and tried blind dating, but women didn't find my desperation appealing. After a particularly wild bachelor party for a friend, I decided that call girls were the answer. I was making good money at the time and didn't have any responsibilities aside from my job. It helped. Eventually I got to a much happier place in life and started dating normally again, and now I've been in a relationship for over 11 years now.