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Favorite or Best?

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27 Oct 2015 14:37 #213479 by Cambyses
Favorite or Best? was created by Cambyses

On the value of the Top 10 list.

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27 Oct 2015 15:29 #213480 by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Favorite or Best?
This is a really good point you're making.

In movies, my "favourite" movie of all time is Aliens. However I think the 'best' movie might be Boyhood. I always feel like I'm betraying Aliens when someone asks me what I think the best movie ever is.

If I had contributed to Mad Dog's list, I would have tried to make a 'best' list and not my favourites

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27 Oct 2015 15:30 - 28 Oct 2015 08:07 #213481 by Legomancer
Replied by Legomancer on topic Favorite or Best?
I was once talking about a band with someone and said, "Their best album is (album1) but my favorite is (album2)." and they reacted with, "That doesn't make any sense." I had no idea how to even proceed at that point.
Last edit: 28 Oct 2015 08:07 by Legomancer.
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27 Oct 2015 16:06 #213486 by Chapel
Replied by Chapel on topic Favorite or Best?
I didn't think Codenames was all that. It's a cute and clever little game, but really, there isn't much there. It's a filler game, and one that got old after a few playings.

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27 Oct 2015 16:11 - 27 Oct 2015 16:13 #213489 by Chapel
Replied by Chapel on topic Favorite or Best?
As for the BGG rating scale, for the life of me, I have no idea why the hell they decided to come out with a "suggested scale" on such a subjective usage. I'm sure a high percentage of users who actually rate game ignore the rating scale legend all together, as it doesn't even make any real sense. I think it's easy to say ignore what you're reading in the legend as it just confuses the issue with the rankings.
Last edit: 27 Oct 2015 16:13 by Chapel.
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27 Oct 2015 16:21 #213491 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Favorite or Best?
I included a metric in my post to Mad Dog's list to account for this. I think it ends up being "Favorites" by your definition, but there's a lot of overlap there for me.

@Chapel, the BGG obsession with filler games is well known. How else can 7 WONDERS make to the top?

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27 Oct 2015 16:26 - 27 Oct 2015 18:51 #213493 by Egg Shen
Replied by Egg Shen on topic Favorite or Best?
Yeah I don't understand people that are unable to distinguish between favorite and best.

If I'm making an all time favorite movie list, then Big Trouble in Little China comes in at numero Uno. If I'm making a best movie of all time list, Big Trouble in Little China is gonna fall further down....prob off the list. It's an awesome movie, but I'm able to recognize that there are movies that are technically better than it.

This is sort of off topic but sort of related...but I hate how consumer report-y and metacritic driven people have become. I have friends that when I tell them about a beer I like will go on Beer Advocate and poo poo it because it's not the highest rated beer on there. They literally haven't even TASTED it and they're like "it's only rated a 3.4 out of 5 on Beer Advocate!" Um, SO WHAT?

People will use these arbitrary ratings in place of their own actual opinions. Same thing with videogames, books, movies, boardgames, music etc... I can't stand it. If something LOOKS cool and interesting then GO see it, buy it, experience it. Don't let some other person's opinion sway you against it. Figure out for yourself if it's worth it. Now I understand people don't want to waste money and that's fine. I'm saying only do this with stuff you're VERY interested in.

It's infuriating how people will spout off these ratings as gospel and expect me to be impressed. I'd rather make up my own mind.
Last edit: 27 Oct 2015 18:51 by Egg Shen.
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27 Oct 2015 16:37 #213495 by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Favorite or Best?
People that understand the difference between "best" and "favorite" understand that their personal tastes and preferences have no impact on the larger cultural or critical uptake of a movie, game, record or whatever. "Ziggy Stardust" is clearly the best Bowie record. But "Diamond Dogs" is my favorite.
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27 Oct 2015 17:37 - 27 Oct 2015 17:40 #213507 by Black Barney
Replied by Black Barney on topic Favorite or Best?
Egg shen, I think exceptions can be made. For instance, the movie Pixels, we all know that's trash. We don't have to see it

BTW, the movie The Squid and the Whale is something I think you'd like. It sort of gets into this. The son is brutal at doing it.

Girl: I really like that book.
Son: it's a lessor work.
Last edit: 27 Oct 2015 17:40 by Black Barney.
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27 Oct 2015 17:46 - 27 Oct 2015 17:47 #213510 by wadenels
Replied by wadenels on topic Favorite or Best?
The thing that separates participatory media like board games from consumable media like poetry is the interaction with other people. Don't underestimate how fun it can be to play someone else's favorite game, even if you aren't among the game's fans. My enjoyment of a board game is directly proportional to how much fun everyone else at the table is having. I'm talking about the kind of fun that comes out of threatening, bargaining, debating, joking, and laughing. Not that heads-down advanced application of a game's mechanics to achieve a favorable outcome within the confines of a strict ruleset type of "fun".

...the best test is when some phrase, or image, or line out of a new poem, recurs to my mind afterwards unsummoned

I've found myself laughing or telling a story about games I don't even like, because the players made the experience fun. I even own a couple games I never suggest but I can't honestly remember having a bad time playing. The result is a lot of the games I do like probably aren't good, but they deliver a social experience that is worth having.
Last edit: 27 Oct 2015 17:47 by wadenels.
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27 Oct 2015 18:08 #213514 by Erik Twice
Replied by Erik Twice on topic Favorite or Best?

Legomancer wrote: I was once talking about a band with someone and said, "Their best album is [a] but my favorite is ." and they reacted with, "That doesn't make any sense." I had no idea how to even proceed at that point.

Sadly, it is very common. And no, I don't have any idea how to answer that, either, it's just confusing and weird.
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27 Oct 2015 21:02 #213524 by Cambyses
Replied by Cambyses on topic Favorite or Best?

Egg Shen wrote: People will use these arbitrary ratings in place of their own actual opinions. Same thing with videogames, books, movies, boardgames, music etc... I can't stand it. If something LOOKS cool and interesting then GO see it, buy it, experience it. Don't let some other person's opinion sway you against it. Figure out for yourself if it's worth it. Now I understand people don't want to waste money and that's fine. I'm saying only do this with stuff you're VERY interested in.

It's infuriating how people will spout off these ratings as gospel and expect me to be impressed. I'd rather make up my own mind.


This hits at the heart of what rankles me about the very endeavor of making a rating system that lets you pit 3 month-old games against Tigris and Euphrates. Just because everyone is losing their shit over the most recent kickstarter doesn't mean you'll still be playing it in a year (Dead of Winter, I'm looking at you). By allowing the "Top 10" to include the soup of the day, we can't ever get a good sense of what the true classics are.

I realize that I'm writing into an echo chamber among the members of this forum, but every time I go look at Reddit or the BGG forums it's like I can't believe I'm even talking about the same games, let alone the same hobby.

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27 Oct 2015 21:16 #213525 by mutagen
Replied by mutagen on topic Favorite or Best?
Lots of people can't distinguish between favorite and best, they simply can't muster the objectivity to do so. This is more prevalent in politics and religion, areas in which people have invested a lot of identity. I don't know that I've ever had an entirely rational discussion on either subject, there always seems to be too much at stake.
Bullshit of course. In fact, I've invested more time playing board games than researching political policy. My purchase history has had a greater impact on the gaming scene, then my voting record has had on the political climate. I shouldn't be annoyed that Obama won a second term, I should be annoyed that people still like TI3.
I guess that I just don't identify as a gamer. Now walk into any game store/convention and see if you can figure out why that is.

To get back on topic, if a list of "best" games were to be compiled, I would suggest extracting out a number of the more obvious titles into a "Games of the Ages" category. Nobody wants to read a list filled with the likes of Risk, Diplomacy, Axis and Allies, Chess, and so forth.

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27 Oct 2015 21:24 #213526 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Favorite or Best?
Trying to decide if "Cool your jets, turbo," or "Lighten up, Francis" is the better line here...

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28 Oct 2015 06:31 #213536 by Vistula Lurker
Replied by Vistula Lurker on topic Favorite or Best?
As far as i'm concerned every game (and every work of art for that matter) has a very large number of different traits. This multitude makes it very hard or even impossible for one person to perceive them all. The approach from the perspective of "the best" values such traits as innovation, coherence and other ones that share one common thing - the majority can agree that they are the positive ones.

Meanwhile when we take "the favourites" approach we can put on pedestal traits we value the best. It can be anything from "game about cavemen", through "game with pretty pictures" or "confrontational" up to "game in which evil is rightly deafeated just like God intended".

This however doesn't make our choices purely subjective. While we may claim that the all the best games have to include cavemen it is not likely that we will gain much support for our claim. When I say that i choose my favourite games instead of the ones that are widely considered the best it means that I put my personal values before the other ones thus making some statement reflecting on personal beliefs but also knowledge and experience.

Just some incohent babbling on my behalf.

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