Idiots - Why I Dislike Cooperative Board Games

Just to be clear here, is Sag calling me an idiot because I like coop games?

A few years after Arkham Horror 2nd was published, I ran into Kevin Wilson at the original FFG Event Center. As it happens, I was one of the FFG warehouse monkeys back in late '03/early '04, when Kevin was working on Arkham Horror, and I loaned him my copy of Arkham Horror 1st edition. Anyway, I expressed thanks for the great job that he did with 2nd edition, and we talked about the game. And he shared an interesting insight to that design process: Arkham Horror's AI functions like a cardboard computer, and the mythos cards effectively run on the computer the same way that punch cards used to run on early computers.

I think my patience with cooperative games runs out when I sense they are too easily optimized. Let's call it the Pandemic problem. The game is too simple and too stable for my taste, and demands optimization more than any other skill. It's not about one person quarterbacking the whole game, but it's the fact that the game is not nearly ambiguous enough with its information and the outcomes of decisions. Even though I only played it once, I actually greatly preferred Defenders of the Realm to Pandemic. What happened to that game anyway?

(Lord of the Rings has a bit of this, but that game has a lot of really harsh luck in it. The way the event tiles are flipped can be brutal, and it's harder to optimize that one.)

Anyway, most of my favorite co-ops these days tend to have a lot of dice in them. The one I play the most is WHQ: Silver Tower, which has become something of a staple with me and my buddy. That game has a generous touch of chaos at the center, and it's a game that clearly cares more about narrative than tactics in the first place. Arkham Horror fills that role for some people as well.

In general I agree with wkover that board games need to find more ways to embrace collaboration over competition, or at least to allow the player to choose which way they want to go about winning.

Reminds me the spirit island expansions are coming out this year.

Gary Sax wrote: Reminds me the spirit island expansions are coming out this year.

Yep. Kinda geeked about that. Spirit Island is the only co-op I regularly play anymore, plus the occasional game of Tiny Epic Defenders.

Vysetron wrote: Most coops are bad, full stop.

I'll take this statement one further. Most games are bad, full stop. To throw out Lord of the Rings and Shadows over Camelot as genre defining is problematic. One isn't even a coop and the other is for children.

Then the article takes the tack that coops are puzzles ignoring the fact that almost all eurogames are puzzles. Look at all the worker placement games where the interaction's only purpose is to remove player options by the time the player's turn rolls around.

Then proceeds to give the example of a game state that continues on a path to folly as if I have never played against a human who has done the same.

Now I do appreciate that Sag might not actually think these things and is only presenting them for discussion purposes. He might just not prefer that type of gameplay. Kudos.

@Sag - Have you tried 7th Continent ?

Not only is it unlike any co-op I've ever played, it's unlike any game I've ever played.

Try before buying, of course, but you might find it interesting.

mtagge wrote: Then the article takes the tack that coops are puzzles ignoring the fact that almost all eurogames are puzzles. Look at all the worker placement games where the interaction's only purpose is to remove player options by the time the player's turn rolls around.

Please reference my article When The Game Gets Out Of Your Way.

Whilst I understand what you are saying in regards to the decks that run most coops not being reactive, I don't think that is entirely the case. The Arkham Horror LCG does have a deck that is the main threat, but because you are immersed in a story, a narrative that justifies what is going on that deck can 'feel' reactive, if it technically isn't it.

This is further reinforced by some of the mechanics the design team have come up with to make certain scenarios feel like the mythos is fighting back, watching your every move and pushing back against you.

I 100% agree on team games. Captain Sonar is a personal favourite and it is something I would really like to see more of.