The Burden of Forum Knowledge

Most of the time, people should just learn how to read and understand that the game is meant to be played as it is written. Most games have very little ambiguity in them. I am amazed at the bitching people have:

1. About rulebooks, especially the layout of FFG rulebooks. To me, they are very logical and make good sense.

2. Not reading through the play examples. Ghost Stories is a prime example here. The examples explain most everything. On TOS, there was a big fucking to do about how to use the power token and when certain events can be done on non-player ghost boards. I read through the thread with answers from the designer and come to find out I did everything exactly right. Why? Because it is straightforward as long as you have passable literacy.

I understand your burden though. I am the only player in our group who looks at the popular boardgame forums (except for one other player that might frequent the FFG forums). However, I play with a group of people that played MtG for years -- between us, we usually can come up with the exact way a rule works, or at least figure out how we think the rule should work thematically. Likewise, in the off chance that we are playing a Euro, then this usually just comes down to figuring out how the timing of rules work -- no big deal. People need to learn to think for themselves.

As to Descent RTL gold level, we are playing our 1st campaign and are at about 545 conquest. The heros do get a boost when they get to gold because the treasure are awesome and the non-diamond monsters are merely a formality. I have had a couple of dungeons where the layout includes some non-diamond monsters and I get royally beaten down (I am the overlord). However, it is far from broken. The big change is the overlord has to be more conservative with the card plays and monster spawning. In effect, more strategic decisions are required.

If they play magic, they are rules experts. Every card breaks the rules. So you need to have a *very* good grasp of rules to play magic. And attention to detail. It always makes me chuckle when I read people looking down on magic players for their lack of sophistication or whatever--they are playing one of the more detail oriented, rules intensive games there is. The interactions, actions, etc can get *so* involved. And to think that these same motherfuckers looking down on the magic players have to ask a ton of questions about Dominion--funny.

It's not the game of Magic that causes the disdain, it's the collectible aspect.

"How could you possibly get into that money pit?" says the guy who then shows you his $300 Thoughthammer order of games he'll play once.

Cognitive dissonance is a way of life in boardgames.

(I don't play Magic, but I have. I'd play again, too. Fun game. Too bad about the lifestyle aspect.)

I have one house rule and it applies to all games played at my place. If there is a rules debate that can't be answered with the rulebook then its decided by a coin flip. If you take the game so seriously that this isn't acceptable then please leave immediately.
Fortunately none of my friends has ever had a problem with this resolution method even when they lose the flip. The flip decision is locked for that entire evening in case we play the same game more than once, but if someone later finds a corrected ruling we'll use that at future sessions.

I've also found a background in CCG card reading to be very helpful with most rule queries. You just have to take the wording of the rule very literally instead of trying to "interpret" it like a lot of people do.

Gary Sax wrote:

If they play magic, they are rules experts. Every card breaks the rules. So you need to have a *very* good grasp of rules to play magic. And attention to detail. It always makes me chuckle when I read people looking down on magic players for their lack of sophistication or whatever--they are playing one of the more detail oriented, rules intensive games there is. The interactions, actions, etc can get *so* involved. And to think that these same motherfuckers looking down on the magic players have to ask a ton of questions about Dominion--funny.

I happen to agree with this 100%. I have been playing Magic since Unlimited and the only type I still play is Type I. Magic very well may be the greatest modern game ever. It does have the collectible aspect to it, but that doesn't speak to the game design itself. It is thoroughly play-tested, highly thematic, fast, interactive, player elimination, and allows for several different play styles.

Dominion's rules are like a fucking sub-paragraph of magic. I would like to see these people argue over how flanking, banding, and phasing work. Hell, phasing was so complicated, Magic removed it from the game.

The internet has made everyone lazy.
You know what we use to do before the internet? Check the fucking rulebook and if it's not in there make something up.
Rules dispute? Do the GW method - roll a die on a 1-3 I'm right, on a 4-6 you're right.

In short, just play the game and don't worry about the minor technicalities.

Exactly... and I mean, look at the the thing with BSG Skeletor that you mentioned. You guys had been playing the rule wrong. It may have changed the result of one or more of the games. But you guys just played it that way. Everyone had the same amount of fun anyway, didn't they?

Space Ghost wrote:
Dominion's rules are like a fucking sub-paragraph of magic. I would like to see these people argue over how flanking, banding, and phasing work. Hell, phasing was so complicated, Magic removed it from the game.

Yes! I haven't played magic for like, probably 8 years. But to criticize the players of the game for a lack of rules understanding is laughable.

Space Ghost wrote:
"...it is straightforward as long as you have passable literacy. ... People need to learn to think for themselves."
Doesn't happen much on T.O.S. as it's easier to ask someone else to do the thinking for them. Baaa!!!!!!!

Gary Sax wrote:
"And to think that these same motherfuckers looking down on the magic players have to ask a ton of questions about Dominion--funny."
Yet the Dominion rule book is a model of clarity...

Mad Dog wrote:
"I have one house rule and it applies to all games played at my place. If there is a rules debate that can't be answered with the rulebook then its decided by a coin flip."
Yep, we used that one in the past as well, must better than a long drawn out debate.
"I've also found a background in CCG card reading to be very helpful with most rule queries. You just have to take the wording of the rule very literally instead of trying to "interpret" it like a lot of people do."
Heh, yes, most of the threads go: 'just here it says this but does it actually mean that?' and another post goes 'but over there it says that slightly differently, which may or may not contradict this, and could even mean something else entirely'. I swear, some of them need Quick Start instructions on the back of the box which explains how to open it. And probably some 'Warning: Box may emit noise when opened!' text, just for the terminally nervous.

You've probably all seen this: Worst Rulebooks Ever .

Notahandle wrote:

You've probably all seen this: Worst Rulebooks Ever .

Nope. My activity on BGG is mostly confined to Combat Commander and Conflict of Heroes, and the threads to which F:AT'ers point me, naturally enough. (Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?)

jeb wrote:

I too have noticed that rules questions at BGG are just out of hand. It's one thing to play a game like Titan and ask for clarification about how carryover works (it's complicated), it's another to ask how tunnels work in TTR:Your Mom's Crotch. That's the whole point of the fucking expansion. There are pictures and shit in the rulebook. There are THREE OTHER THREADS ALL ASKING THE SAME THING. Cripes.

AMEN

How many times have you seem these threads?

-War of the Ring: Are my dice defective!? The blue ones have 2 swords!
-Dominion: What happens to the crap in my hand after my turn!?
-Power Grid: How do you know who won!? The rules are incomprehensible!
-Ticket to Ride: How many cards can you draw!?
-Some ridiculously simple game: I'm an idiot who can't read! HALP

Not to mention all the threads about how some mechanism or game aspect breaks the entire game or some nonsense.

Notahandle wrote:

You've probably all seen this: Worst Rulebooks Ever .

"Have to have player aids from this site" for Arkham Horror... That one surprised me.

Space Ghost wrote:

1. About rulebooks, especially the layout of FFG rulebooks. To me, they are very logical and make good sense.

FFG rule books are perfect for learning a game. They are very poor when you want to reference a rule during play.

In contrast with Avalon Hill rule books the exact opposite is true: Tough to learn but easy to reference a rule.

Schweig! wrote:

Space Ghost wrote:

1. About rulebooks, especially the layout of FFG rulebooks. To me, they are very logical and make good sense.

FFG rule books are perfect for learning a game. They are very poor when you want to reference a rule during play.

In contrast with Avalon Hill rule books the exact opposite is true: Tough to learn but easy to reference a rule.

Hear! Hear!