CMON doubles shipping costs to get Marvel United when it goes to retail

The campaign is over, but we still have a post-credits scene with a twist to present our backers: We are offering all backers the option to choose 2-Wave Expedited Shipping for their pledges! By selecting this option, we will separate your pledge into two shipping Waves. The First Wave will contain only the Marvel United Core Box (however many copies you get) and it is estimated to deliver around August 2020, about the same time as the Marvel United Core Box goes to retail. Then the Second Wave will contain everything else in your pledge, including the box of Stretch Goals and all Optional Buys, and it is estimated to deliver by March 2021. Of course, by separating the shipments the total cost of 2 different shipments will be charged, so by selecting this option you should notice an increase in your shipping cost. The deadline for submitting and paying for 2-Wave Expedited Shipping is April 3rd 2020. This option will no longer be available after that, and pledges with this option selected that are not paid and confirmed by April 3rd will be automatically moved to Single-Wave Shipping.

If you don’t choose the 2-Wave Expedited Shipping option, or fail to confirm it by April 3rd, then your pledge will use Single-Wave Shipping, which will include your full pledge in the Second Wave, estimated to deliver by March 2021. The deadline for submitting and paying for Single-Wave Shipping is May 8th, 2020. If you fail to finalize your pledge by the deadline, your order will be shipped later and from the USA hub, incurring higher shipping costs and possible customs fees for international backers.

There's an explosive thread on Reddit about this, given the doubling of shipping costs as a ransom to get the game at the same time as retail, instead of waiting 8(!) months for it.

I haven't been involved in any CMON campaigns before this, so I don't have any direct experience with how soon the product has moved to retail after the backers have received their copies. Have they all been roughly simultaneous like this? My hazy memory makes me feel like people got their full package of Rising Sun stuff (just as an example) before any of it ended up on a store shelf.

I'm trying to decide if it's too early to buy Daytona 500. I usually wait for games to be out for a few decades before I get them.

I fully ignored this campaign on account of CMON... did they actually spring two-wave shipping AFTER it was over? Every time I have seen other publishers do this (Awaken Realms, Dragori, etc.) it is up front and clear as an option during the campaign.

hotseatgames wrote: I fully ignored this campaign on account of CMON... did they actually spring two-wave shipping AFTER it was over? Every time I have seen other publishers do this (Awaken Realms, Dragori, etc.) it is up front and clear as an option during the campaign.

They announced it a week after the campaign ended. I think if it was known up from it wouldn't be an issue, but springing it on people after the campaign ended feels pretty skeezy.

To be fair, I read you're not paying double shipping, just a surcharge (on the order of $10) to get two-wave shipping. So saying it's double is a bit hyperbolic, but it is totally a dick move on their part, as they clearly knew they were going to do this ahead of time and waited till after the campaign. I personally dislike CMON's predatory FOMO tactics and avoid them like the plague (it helps that most of their games are meh), so looking at it as an outsider.

They are not completely alone here, as Ares recently announced two-wave shipping for their sequel/prequel to Swords and Sorcery and gave everyone an opportunity to pay to get their core games before it hits retail, with all the expansion/stretch goal cruft to come later. Now, for better or worse, this happened many months after the campaign, and certainly looks like that was not their original intention. They are offering to give future credit on their stuff for the extra shipping charge ($18 in that case), though that's not a huge consolation. I'm still debating what I want to do here, I only got it because it's my son's favorite game...

It’s one thing to say sell a game at a convention as it’s shipping to KS customers. Telling them they gotta pay extra , even just $10, or they wait 8 MONTHS. And it’s not like CMON is hurting for cash.

Yeah that’s a big fuck you.

Yet addict board gamers will shut up and do it anyway, continuing to give this garbage company their money.

CMON is trash, their games are trash. Don’t throw your money away.

Michael Barnes wrote: CMON is trash, their games are trash. Don’t throw your money away.

Let's not descend completely into hyperbole. Eric Lang's output with them (The Others, Blood Rage, Rising Sun) has been excellent. I haven't played much of the rest of their line, but it's kind of ludicrous to dismiss everything they've done because their latest business practices are poor choices.

I'm more interested in what economic factors encouraged this approach. KS is where you go to get your games noticed. Do you make retail plans after seeing the response to the campaign? Maybe that's an argument for smaller projects, but surely you'd have predicted a strong retail opening for something with "Marvel" in the title, right? So that means that they easily could have predicted that this would be an issue of some kind.

It's an interesting contrast with companies like Gamelyn. They KS all of their Tiny Epic line because everyone takes advantage of the free promotion of a campaign. That's where the eyeballs are. In fact, it's probably even more important for their TE line, since it would be easy for them to get lost on the shelf in the traditional retail approach (because they're, y'know, tiny.) But they have shipping costs baked into their campaigns because it's actually a significant cost control for them. Part of their design process incorporates the cost of shipping, such that they have to bring each TE game in under a certain weight to make a successful margin. So they design components with that in mind, as well as visual appeal, usefulness, etc.

It's possible this wasn't planned. If the China manufacturing queues are way behind, they may be unable to produce all of this stuff at the same time.

I can understand that but, if that's the case, why not just say that? There's always going to be the little core of offended nerds who think CMON Is just out to screw them by not getting them their toys on time, but the response wouldn't be as widespread if they just said something like: "Hey. Production on the extra components has been so disrupted by recent events that we can't keep schedule, so here are two options: wait until March or pay extra to get the base game when that production is completed and arrives in August." That would be an easy explanation and allows CMON to pass the buck a little "due to events beyond our control", which may be the truth. The way they're presenting this just makes it seem like there's something more going on, especially given what cdennett said about this 'two wave' system not being unique to CMON. Either that or they just have a really bad PR person.

Even if China is the reason for the delay, prioritizing retailers over people who prepaid is a dick move.

A few years back, KS backers got very vocal about being mad when games they Kickstarted got to retail ahead of backers. This led to many companies including a disclaimer (at the bottom of the KS page) declaring in effect "We reserve the right to release copies into retail channels before you get your stuff, deal with it." I do not see such a disclaimer on this project.

Which leads into the discussion about, "Do KS publishers owe it to their backers to get them their games before retail?" When KS could still call themselves a "crowdfunding platform" (instead of a glorified pre-order store) this was taken for granted, but it feels like backers now treat retail jumping the line as just another cost of doing business (like those helpful folks who love to immediately scream, "BUT ALL PROJECTS ARE LIKE THIS!" whenever someone has the temerity to bring up project delays.)

KS backers are some masochistic chumps, that's for sure.

fightcitymayor wrote: A few years back, KS backers got very vocal about being mad when games they Kickstarted got to retail ahead of backers. This led to many companies including a disclaimer (at the bottom of the KS page) declaring in effect "We reserve the right to release copies into retail channels before you get your stuff, deal with it." I do not see such a disclaimer on this project.

Which leads into the discussion about, "Do KS publishers owe it to their backers to get them their games before retail?" When KS could still call themselves a "crowdfunding platform" (instead of a glorified pre-order store) this was taken for granted, but it feels like backers now treat retail jumping the line as just another cost of doing business (like those helpful folks who love to immediately scream, "BUT ALL PROJECTS ARE LIKE THIS!" whenever someone has the temerity to bring up project delays.)

KS backers are some masochistic chumps, that's for sure.

Most of that hue and cry was over companies selling at conventions while the game was shipping. I get that - those con sales cover expenses, feed marketing, etc . And I wouldn't begrudge a lag of a month or so. But in this case, 8 months unless you fork over more money ?? And to boot, the campaign only launched 5 weeks ago. They either knew beforehand there would be split shipping or they planned poorly. And for a company as experienced as CMON, neither is a valid excuse IMO.

Msample wrote: Most of that hue and cry was over companies selling at conventions while the game was shipping. I get that - those con sales cover expenses, feed marketing, etc . And I wouldn't begrudge a lag of a month or so. But in this case, 8 months unless you fork over more money ?? And to boot, the campaign only launched 5 weeks ago. They either knew beforehand there would be split shipping or they planned poorly. And for a company as experienced as CMON, neither is a valid excuse IMO.

I'm on your side, KS companies are terrible. I just wish backers wouldn't encourage their shenanigans by constantly making excuses for them. Like you said, CMON aren't dumb & this ain't their first rodeo. They knew telling backers the truth would mean less KS sales, as X% of people would just wait for retail.