Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay - On a Slippery Slope

Oh boy. Got my hands on 2nd edition rulebook for this game. This could be bad. Good bye free time.

I bet Fantasy Roleplay would be pretty good. 40K, it seems to me, would be a much more difficult place to RP.

Branham loves this stuff...you guys should talk to him about it.

Oh boy. Got my hands on 2nd edition rulebook for this game. This could be bad. Good bye free time.

You are experiencing "Rules Intoxication". Once your condition wears off you will realize there is very little game there because Role Playing is dead.

"Rules Intoxication" is a state induced by very well written rules and is a marketing ploy to sell games. You see this most often in RPG's but it is becoming more prevelant in boardgames as well. Once the designer has finished the game and invested time and money in the project and has received less than stellar results in playtesting. The only saving grace for the game is too employ well written rules to hype the game and seem like it will be a real winner when it hits the table!

Don't spend too much time reading the rules. Get to the game straight away to avoid RULES INTOXICATION and to see the game in its TRUE LIGHT!

Gary Sax wrote:

I bet Fantasy Roleplay would be pretty good. 40K, it seems to me, would be a much more difficult place to RP.

Not really, but instead of broadening their horizons, GW would always narrowly focus on the Imperium; mainly the stupid Inquisitors. My God, there's more to 40k than the fucking Inquisition! How come Mutant Chronicles can pull off different corporations, each with their own sourcebook (including two for the Dark Legion, for fuck's sake) and they cannot get their ass in gear and make a decent RP in the 40k universe. Inquisitor? Designed to sell to fanbots 54mm figures with a shoddy gamesystem integrated with light roleplay, which went over as well as a fart in church. Dark Heresy? Same vein as Inquisitor, without the reliance on the minis. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I would buy a 40k based RPG in a minute if they would, you know, ACTUALLY DO IT.

I disagree Rliyen. There's nothing else to do in the 40K universe RPwise but something like inquisitors (which I agree does suck). Aliens hate each other. The vast majority of people in 40K live on horrible hive planets. Anybody who is exceptional is basically a brainwashed crazy person.

Back in Rogue Trader days, yeah, there's something to RP. But the new universe just doesn't work for RP at least to me. That said I haven't RPed for years and years.

WFRP Fantasy *IS* awesome. Combats that last mere minutes, black humor everywhere, and Nurgle.

The second edition Ashes campaign is pretty good to boot. The first two sectiosn are great, and the third (Forges of Nuln) is...ok and needs work. The Thousand Thrones campaign...needs a lot of work. There are also a ton of really good fanmade adventures from the old Black Library site.

Someone did a conversion of the stats for the classic Enemy Within 2st ed campaign into 2nd ed. This is well worth running. The problem is that the Enemy Within books cost $150 or so. This is old course infinitely solveable if you find the magic torrent with all of the first edition books.

Gary Sax wrote:

I disagree Rliyen. There's nothing else to do in the 40K universe RPwise but something like inquisitors (which I agree does suck). Aliens hate each other. The vast majority of people in 40K live on horrible hive planets. Anybody who is exceptional is basically a brainwashed crazy person.

Back in Rogue Trader days, yeah, there's something to RP. But the new universe just doesn't work for RP at least to me. That said I haven't RPed for years and years.

And I respectfully disagree right back! =o)

For instance, the Eldar do not hate all races, but they do look down upon Humanity. They do have relations with Humans, it's just not widely spread and the Powers that Be would rather have their compatriots compliant with the God Emperor than intermingling with other races and actually seeing their point of view. Orcs? The universe's version of the Hell's Angels. Hate? Nah, they just want to Waaaagh. Necrons? Yes, homicidal Terminator wannabes that want to render the universe lifeless, save them. Tau, just want everyone to join the Greater Good. Dark Eldar? Torture and Slaves (yes, and hate).

Not all Imperium worlds are hive based. Deathworlds are a far worse prospect. They also have Agri-worlds (Imperium's gotta eat). Lo-tech worlds. Forge Worlds.

My point is that they have this HUGE ASS sandbox to play in, yet they refuse to do so.

Dark Heresy has been pretty fun so far as either a fairly simple tactical mission based RPG or a really complicated minis game with lots of RPG elements. It does help that the dudes I play with are mega 40k nerds and we play a lot of it on huge 3D maps with great looking minis.

I really like the way damage is handled on the gruesome death tables.

MattLoter wrote:

Dark Heresy has been pretty fun so far as either a fairly simple tactical mission based RPG or a really complicated minis game with lots of RPG elements. It does help that the dudes I play with are mega 40k nerds and we play a lot of it on huge 3D maps with great looking minis.

I really like the way damage is handled on the gruesome death tables.

Don't get me wrong, I like Inquisitor (as a tactical minis game). You don't have to use 54mm minis. I just use the ones I have. As an RPG game, it sucks and the way damage was dealt was laughable (reduce wound level by gritting your teeth and ignoring it????? WTF?).

I love WFRP. It came into my life before I set aside "childish things" and went off to college, so I never got to play as much of it as I would have liked, but I was quite fond of it. I love the job system, and the rules/world have a great feel. Damn, if I wasn't 3,000 miles away from all the stuff I have in storage in Seattle, I would totally send you my copy of the Enemy Within campaign. It deserves to be put through its paces.

Im drowning in the rules. Like I said, we haven't really tried RPGs out, so I'd like to ask a few quick questions:

What is considered a session? How long does a session usually last? For example, the adventure included with the corebook, how long will we realistically have to play that one?

also, can PCs jump in in the middle of an adventure? can they jump out? not too sure how schedules will mesh if we ever start to run a campaign or adventure or whatever it's called.

It is really easy to scale inquisitor down to 28mm, which is what the game should have done in the first place (would have been a huge hit and sold tons of minis)

I liked WFRP - the system isn't great but probably above average and not too complex and the background is incredible. I feel the same way about dark heresy, but I don't see as many roleplaying opportunities there.

As for most of your questions, kookoobah, the answers are all "whatever you want." Roleplaying games just aren't as structured as board games. The players figure out what works for them and run with it.

kookoobah wrote:

Im drowning in the rules. Like I said, we haven't really tried RPGs out, so I'd like to ask a few quick questions:

What is considered a session? How long does a session usually last? For example, the adventure included with the corebook, how long will we realistically have to play that one?

also, can PCs jump in in the middle of an adventure? can they jump out? not too sure how schedules will mesh if we ever start to run a campaign or adventure or whatever it's called.

Well, first off, kudos for trying to learn RPGs from a book. That's definitely the hard way -- there's so many little social aspects of the game that can't be distilled onto the printed page. In fact I'd really recommend going to a local minicon or your FLGS and seeing if you can sit in on a session, just to get some idea of what you're doing. That'd go a long way towards giving a mental framework to fit all the stuff in the book into.

Secondly, skip all the stuff in the book that you don't need for the adventure. Magic is irrelevant if unless you have magic-using characters, which you probably won't. You don't need to know the bestiary or the background aside from the rough overview (Sigmar vs. Ulric, the Empire, Chaos, etc.).

Thirdly, in response to your questions: what Hancock said -- it's whatever you want; there's no One True Way; and the real answer is "whatever is most fun for you and your group." But I'll try and give some typical answers just so you have a ballpark idea of what's common in the hobby.

A session is sitting down and playing the game. (Is this just a jargon question?) Creating characters is usually not considered a session.

The typical session is around four hours, but there's a lot of variance -- you want to stop at a good stopping point. Think "the end of a chapter" and you'll have the right idea. In fact, thinking of an adventure as a book, a group of linked adventures as a book series, and each individual session as one or more chapters is a really good start. You should count on at least two hours per session but try to allow for up to six if you have time and everyone's having fun. Past six hours, people's attention typically starts to drag.

SPOILERS, if any of your players are reading, they should stop.



PCs jumping in in the middle of an adventure is difficult, because you want to maintain a believable narrative. Jumping out is equally-difficult -- these two things are the biggest problem with old-style campaign RPGs like WFRP. You really need a consistent group who can commit to playing on a weekly/biweekly/monthly basis. The payoff for RPGs is great but it's just so hard once you get a grownup life with a house, spouse/kids, etc.

At any rate, good luck! RPGs are a great hobby and WFRP is one of the best. Let me know if you have any other questions; I'd be happy to help.

thanks dysjunct, that was a lot of help. i finished the rulebook, and this doesnt look like a game for us. it's a bit too unstructured, i'm not sure how the whole roleplaying/storytelling aspect is going to fly with my group.

still, we've resolved to have one session in a week or so, and then see how we like it.