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× For those who like to push chits.

Imperial Struggle, follow-up to Twilight Struggle

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23 Oct 2018 18:47 - 23 Oct 2018 18:50 #284560 by Gary Sax
I thought we had a thread on this but I couldn't find it.

Anyway, the designers of Twilight Struggle have had a new P500 up on GMT's site for a while. No details, early in the design. I ordered it sight unseen anyway (like many did), but didn't think anything of not knowing any details.

Anyway, some details are finally coming out, here's a design diary with some details:

www.insidegmt.com/?p=21624

I am really excited about where this is going! I was going to order it anyway but I think this looks really promising---I like the dual use and contingent power use elements of the new CDGs so I think this will be a welcome addition to the twilight struggle type engine. Also, the talk of drafting cards might be interesting too since card draw is such a huge deal in TS.

Curious to see if it will be as short and light as they originally advertised, which they talked about being easier and breezier than Twilight Struggle. The twists here suggest additional complexity (e.g. ministry cards, costs for cards (investments, which I think basically are resources?), etc). Anyway, real excited now. Still a long time till it comes out, it seems like.
Last edit: 23 Oct 2018 18:50 by Gary Sax.
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23 Oct 2018 20:57 #284569 by Count Orlok
I'm really excited to see this one come to fruition. I'm frankly stunned at just how slow the drips of information have been about this considering the number of preorders, but that's gmt for you. I like what I'm seeing in terms of adapting the card driven format, which I think has grown a bit stale at this point. It seems like they're experimenting enough to keep it interesting.

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23 Oct 2018 21:19 #284572 by Not Sure
This is my only open P500, and half of my pre-ordered games (Pax Pamir 2e is the other one).

Even if it was a straight port of TS to the time period, it would have been enough for me. The developments look very interesting to me, especially the multi-use cards.

It's cool to see some motion on this, it has been really quiet for a long time.

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23 Oct 2018 21:56 #284576 by Gary Sax
My guess is that Ananda's day job is pretty big time, so maybe that explains it? He's like a lead designer at Riot, which makes League of Legends.

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23 Oct 2018 22:25 #284579 by Count Orlok

Gary Sax wrote: My guess is that Ananda's day job is pretty big time, so maybe that explains it? He's like a lead designer at Riot, which makes League of Legends.


Oh, definitely. It's just a clear indication of the failings of GMT's preorder model. They don't do promotion or publicity for the games themselves and pass it off to the designers to do themselves. If I remember correctly, Twilight Struggle itself languished on the preorder list for some time without driving a lot of interest. It wasn't until people got their hands on it that they had any sense as to what it was. I don't think many other game companies would be quite so hands off in their approach to what I would call a pretty spectacular game design.
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23 Oct 2018 22:50 #284580 by Not Sure

Count Orlok wrote:

Gary Sax wrote: My guess is that Ananda's day job is pretty big time, so maybe that explains it? He's like a lead designer at Riot, which makes League of Legends.


Oh, definitely. It's just a clear indication of the failings of GMT's preorder model. They don't do promotion or publicity for the games themselves and pass it off to the designers to do themselves. If I remember correctly, Twilight Struggle itself languished on the preorder list for some time without driving a lot of interest. It wasn't until people got their hands on it that they had any sense as to what it was. I don't think many other game companies would be quite so hands off in their approach to what I would call a pretty spectacular game design.


MMP? :trollface:
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24 Oct 2018 09:33 #284599 by Count Orlok
I have no experience with MMP, so I cant' comment. I guess what I find strange is just how disconnected the wargame companies are from the other gaming scenes. I just wonder if anyone had the slightest inkling of the possibility of the crossover success of Twilight Struggle.

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24 Oct 2018 10:55 #284608 by jpat
From what little I've gathered, IS was believed at one point to be further along than it turned out to be (as suggested by the latest newsletter post suggesting a significant design change and by other comments about "no news"). Gene did say in the most recent monthly newsletter that GMT was only going to start listing titles as P500s that were closer to completion than some of the ones they've put up before. I don't know whether this one falls into that category, but there have certainly been some lingerers. (Wild Blue Yonder comes to mind immediately. I had a preorder for that for about nine years before it actually came out; ironically enough, I'd canceled about a year before because my interests had changed.)

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24 Oct 2018 19:45 #284629 by Gary Sax
Interesting comment from the designer on a BGG photo, is a big positive from my perspective:

"This art shot makes it look like a geographical military component is present rather than just diplomatic connections as I understand TS to be. Of course I could be wrong... I haven't played TS yet and am unfamiliar with the genre. But if right it would enhance my interest for certain."

"That is correct; since the two antagonists fight four open wars in this game, military investment on the map (specifically, naval dominance and forts) plays an important role in both peacetime and wartime."

So there is at least an abstracted military element, though it doesn't sound like units or unit movement or anything which is fine. I like it.
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09 Feb 2020 13:04 - 09 Feb 2020 13:04 #306960 by Gary Sax
www.boardgamegeek.com/image/5213216/imperial-struggle

Finalish map posted for this, looks great and certainly quite intriguing. I'm not buying this being lighter than TS, given the detail on this map. Looks like there's a commodity control system? Welcome addition for a game of this theme.

Anyway, still think this is shaping up to be very interesting, which is separate from necessarily being a great game.
Last edit: 09 Feb 2020 13:04 by Gary Sax.
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10 Feb 2020 11:23 #306976 by jeb
This board makes me want to play it less? This looks like hella mess. I can be convinced otherwise. AGE OF RENAISSANCE has a fucked up board and that game is good as hell.
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10 Feb 2020 11:56 #306978 by Gary Sax
Yeah, artists have been struggling to make world size maps with areas of different scales for a long time. I think Virgin Queen's was a little bit better but same vibe.
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10 Feb 2020 12:06 #306980 by JoelCFC25
There is a lot of very bizarre use of transparency and I'm not sure what is added by showing physical relief on the maps, but I really don't want to be one of those guys so I should stop there, haha.
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14 Feb 2020 08:57 - 14 Feb 2020 08:58 #307112 by JoelCFC25
Last edit: 14 Feb 2020 08:58 by JoelCFC25.
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14 Feb 2020 11:49 #307116 by jeb
Yikes.

I haven't played the game! But I am saying, "yikes."
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