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16 Apr 2018 12:12 #267625 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Hearthstone Players!

Jackwraith wrote: In contrast to Matt, I've found Rush effects to be really effective, mostly against me. Similarly, I've found Echo to be great, not just for stunts like with Glinda, but with cards like Sound the Bells. I've also seen pretty awesome moves with cards like Hunting Mastiff, that use both. My supposition is that both mechanics, like the even/odd constructs, are less ANSWERS than they are tools in a wider framework. If you're expecting any of them to be game-winning, you'll be disappointed in the same way you will with the enhanced hero powers. But if you're able to locate and take advantage of the moments when they excel, you'll do really well with them.

I'm only drawing on my own experience, both playing and seeing my opponent's play, rather than thinking things through. Which is to say: I haven't seen echo or rush being used much for anything, let alone anything effective. That doesn't mean there's not a use for them somewhere down the line.

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16 Apr 2018 17:05 - 16 Apr 2018 19:46 #267647 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
I say again: Priest sucks. I spent over an hour today trying to get ONE WIN with 3 different Priest decks: Quest Priest, a Control list that uses the hallowed Auchenai-Circle technique, and Baku. I lost every game against Hand Druid, Baku Paladin, Warlock; hell, I even lost to Shudderwock. I finally won with Control against a mishmash Hunter thing with Murlocs. I basically wrecked his board for several turns with Pyromancer, PWS, and Spirit Lash (Note that there are no WW cards there.) and finally had three or four minions out and was at full health while he had no cards in hand. Jeebus.

Admittedly, I had some bad draws and my opponent's decks were often solid. Hand Druid is like poison to most other Control decks, since you'll rarely be able to get past their armor before they run you over with boosted Wisps. But, man. It's Spiteful or bust. Since I don't own any and am short the dust, I think I may just abandon Priest for a while, especially since none of the decks I've been playing are particularly fun. Just like most Quest decks to date, they're basically about waiting until you can do... something. It's not like waiting for a combo or the chance to pull off your big creature play. It's more like staring at the cards in your hand, knowing you'd like to play some of them, but also knowing that they're an utter tempo loss and will probably be wasted. I'm having flashbacks to pre-Mean Streets Priest. It's not entirely hopeless, since Spiteful still exists. But outside of that deck, it feels very similar.
Last edit: 16 Apr 2018 19:46 by Jackwraith.

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17 Apr 2018 02:30 - 17 Apr 2018 07:57 #267657 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
On the opposite end of the spectrum. the panic over Shudderwock was completely overblown. The combo has so many moving parts that it's extremely difficult to stay alive long enough to get them all to function. I lost to one today because I was playing Priest, but I've routinely beaten every other one that I've played. You just pretend you're a Face Hunter and ignore everything they put down. Consequently, VS says that Shaman is not only the least-played class, but also the one with the worst record. The only hope may be that Blizzard's more comprehensive numbers are saying it's not that bad, so when they do swing the totally unnecessary nerf bat at Shudderwock, Shaman won't be totally wrecked until August.

Strangely, the new version of Crusher Shaman may actually be viable. They key element is Sandbinder. It's funny how just two cards can open up draw percentages for other key cards so much that something that utterly failed to work is now possibly viable. Sandbinder pulls Elementals, which both EE and Snowfury happen to be. Combine the Sandbinders with Loot Hoarders and Thalnos and you have a decent chance of putting one of the aforementioned Elementals in your hand at around the same time you have an Ancestral Spirit and/or Spirit Echo and/or a Spellstone. I only played three games with it in Casual, but I won pretty handily in all three. The first was Hand Druid (Those guys are everywhere! Is it just because they all want to play Lunara?) One advantage I probably had is that all of my opponents assumed I was Shudderwock and kept hands centered around direct damage.

I sat behind a Drakkari for a few turns and he double Spellstoned my first EE to get rid of it. His Oaken Summons had given him the armor to charge them both up to 4 and had also summoned a Violet Teacher. I used up the last of my Drakkari's health to get it to 3 and then Lightning Stormed to remove it and the two Apprentices. But the Storm came up 1 short on the Teacher and he actually taunted me ("That was wild!") because I was out of mana. So I Zapped it. On turn 7 with 4 mana free, I decided to totem and drop my first Snowfury at a cost of 2. He proceeded to Swipe, Wrath, and use his face to get rid of it. So next turn, I Sandbindered and Coined out an EE. He UIs it, leaving it on 3 health. I Crushing Hand the Ghoul, Sandbinder the other Snowfury into my hand, and toss it down for free. I have two Sandbinders, a 7/3 EE, a Wrath totem, and a Snowfury Giant. His board is empty.

He Plagues and eventually double Paths into +2 attack, but I've Spirit Echoed everything. So he clears everything but the Giant and starts hitting me. I play Hagatha and clear all his Scarabs, which have had Spirit of the Forest cast on them. Hagatha has reduced the Giant to 1 health. I have 2 mana and am facing 3 Treants. I drop my Stoneclaw back on the board for 1. Hagatha gives me a Forked Lightning. I cast it and then Zap the last Treant. He's used all his removal and can't get through the Stoneclaw and I have a Healing Rain for the giant ready to go. I also draw the other Ancestral, but he concedes before I can rub it in.

The next game was against this insanely aggressive Mage. I know he probably thought that I was playing Shudderwock, so he did the right thing, but it was still crazy. I've only got a Stoneclaw out and he Coin, Cinderstorms on turn 2. I put a Drakkari down. He responds with Runes. On my turn 4, I have 1 mana so I hit and pass. He Fireballs my face. I Sandbinder to get an EE and the former dies to the Runes. On turn 5, he Frostbolts me and then Flame Geyers me. I was like: "Dude, you're going to be so unhappy when I drop this EE and you realize that you have nothing left to stop it." I'm at 14. My Drakkari is untouched, I put the EE down and he finally hesitates. Yep. Not Shudderwock. So he Glyphs. What's the one damn spell he could get that would help him out here? Of course he gets Polymorph off the Glyph at a cost of 2. Then he uses his last 2 mana to Frostbolt my face, anyway. I'm at 11. I have 3 mana available. I topdeck Healing Rain. I put a Snowfury down and Ancestral Spirit it (he gets a copy of that from Mana Bind) and then follow that with a Spirit Echo on that, the Drakkari, and a Stoneclaw. It's over a couple turns later.

Last game was against Quest Warrior. At one point, I had both EEs and both Ancestral Spirits in hand. I waited until turn 6 to properly Coin out one pair of those. I had Sandbindered into a Snowfury, too. On his turn 7, he trades his Armorsmith into it, Executes it, and then Brawls to try to get rid of the replacement. But the EE comes out of the Brawl with the Sandbinder and totem. I then play the other Ancestral Spirit on it and later follow with the other EE. He play Yip on turn 8, but only has 3 armor from having been beaten by an EE and about to be beaten by 2. Even if he had gotten something big, I had Hex in hand along with a 2-cost Snowfury. He concedes after Yip summoned an Owl.

Anyway, here's the list. Only three games in Casual, but maybe it's something:

### Hagover

# 2x (0) Zap!
# 2x (2) Ancestral Spirit
# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
# 2x (2) Crushing Hand
# 2x (2) Loot Hoarder
# 2x (3) Drakkari Defender
# 2x (3) Healing Rain
# 2x (3) Lightning Storm
# 2x (3) Spirit Echo
# 2x (4) Hex
# 2x (4) Sandbinder
# 2x (5) Earth Elemental
# 2x (5) Volcano
# 2x (7) Lesser Sapphire Spellstone
# 1x (8) Hagatha the Witch
# 2x (11) Snowfury Giant
Last edit: 17 Apr 2018 07:57 by Jackwraith.
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17 Apr 2018 04:15 #267658 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Hearthstone Players!

Jackwraith wrote: I say again: Priest sucks.

Seen the current one/two turn kill Priest that's doing the rounds? Alex into Anduin into repeat Mind Blast/Hero Power until dead. It beat me, although I suck so that's proof of nothing.

Not convinced by the Quest Warrior at the moment. I've been running it a bit - I'm about 450 wins with Warrior so I'd like a valid deck to get my golden hero - and it seems a bit flaky. Without Execute its ability to deal with big minions is extremely limited. And without Garrosh it only really has the quest as a win condition, and that's quite easy to stall against if you can put down weenie minions to soak up the damage. Once you complete it, your over-powered defensive hero power is gone so your opponent is free to whale on your face until you're dead.

Always takes me a long time to find a deck that's both fun and functional for me after an expansion. Haven't really had a great time with any of the popular models that I've tried so far. Might have to craft up Lord Godfrey and go back to Cubelock.

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17 Apr 2018 07:57 #267661 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
I've seen the Mind Blast lists, but haven't encountered one.

I agree with you on Quest Warrior, especially if they're going Baku. Like Quest Priest, the object seems to be to outlast your opponent, but so many decks are able to deal out such significant burst and/or consistent damage that it's never been a viable strategy for the Awaken decks and likely won't be for the Warrior decks, either.

Lord Godfrey is kind of hilarious when played and definitely reminiscent of his character in Shadowfang.

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17 Apr 2018 09:01 #267665 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Hearthstone Players!
I think the list I'm most comfortable with at the moment is the new variant of Secret Mage. I actually quite like that it's less of a one trick pony now.

There's still a lot to do with the core list, though. It has two Vex Crows. While this looks like a great card on paper, in practice it's a damage magnet and the RNG means it's often a lot less useful than it sounds. Pyroblast is also, I think, questionable: the deck relies much more on low-cost spells and can use them to generate wins with the Archmage. None of these has won me a single game so far.

I also don't think that having two Arcanologists and only three Secrets is the right balance. Given the mulligan and all the card draw in the deck (Aluneth, 2xArcane Intellect) it's quite common to pull one or both secrets before the Arcanologists, making them of limited use. I reckon adding a Mirror Entity, and maybe an extra Counterspell, is worthwhile.

Might experiment with swapping some of these cards for extra secrets. I know that some of these lists run Cinderstorm (I'm not) and that's also worth considering over the Crows. As a relatively cheap spell it combos well with Antonidas and Mana Wyrm.

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17 Apr 2018 10:21 - 17 Apr 2018 11:59 #267674 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
There are lots of Mage builds, but all but the strict Elemental Frost Lich one should play
2@ Explosive Runes
2@ Kirin Tor Mage
2@ Arcanologist

Cinderstorm is wonky. If you are seeing a lot of Dude Paladins, then it's a solid include; or if you are burn and want another cheap 5 damage. But most midrange'y builds should probably drop it for something else.

I made it over the Rank 5 hump, finally. I had to just play FaceHunter, which is shitty, but I finally got over after being stuck at 6.3 or so for like a week. I feel liberated. I want one more card to help me punish greedy decks with Fatiguish Druid. Any ideas?
Last edit: 17 Apr 2018 11:59 by jeb.

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17 Apr 2018 13:27 #267685 by MacDirk Diggler
I don’t know exactly what list for which hero you are looking for ideas. But I will say that I have seen The Black Knight popping up as a tech card. Hadronox Druid. Warlock. Priest. All the odd decks run stonehill. So there are some meaty taunt targets for him

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19 Apr 2018 19:17 #267868 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Speaking of Hadronox Druid...

A little backstory: My main in WoW was a Tauren Enhancement Shaman. Something about the Tauren culture (modeled on Native American tribes) and the whole "in tune with the elements while beating the shit out of people with a couple cesti" just appealed. However, my first character was actually an Orc Warlock. The dark side of the Force has always appealed to me (my favorite armies in 40K were Dark Eldar and Chaos; in Fantasy, Skaven and Chaos) and the Warlocks reminded me of the darker Orc Shamans from the Warcraft series. So, Warlock has always appealed to me as a class. But just like with one of my other favorites (Shaman), Warlock has long been saddled with subpar minions and the horrible Discard mechanic. The demon stuff has changed a lot in the last couple years, but it was still the case until Kobolds that if you were playing Control Warlock, you were playing giants and if you were playing Zoo, you were playing mostly neutral minions after you started with the prerequisite Flame Imp/Voidwalker.

When Cubelock emerged, I was like: Cool! Demons with a purpose... But it was still kind of combo-y, which has never been a deck type that appealed to me. I don't want to execute one big turn. I want to have fun in several turns. So, now that Druid decks are rampant after remembering that Hadronox is a Beast and can be fetched with what was thought to be one of the worst cards in the Witchwood (Witching Hour), Hadronox Taunt/Armor decks are flooding the meta, not least because they utterly ruin the day of standard Cubelock decks. Your 5 Doomguards do jack-all to 7 Taunts, especially once he clears your board and, in the process, resummons those 7 Taunts. Tapped a bit too much? Yeah. That's too bad.

Kripp got frustrated with the Druid decks and so decided to make a variation of Cubelock that focused not on Doomguards, but on Dreadlords. In the same manner, it doesn't matter how many Taunts get put out in the face of 5 Dreadlords. The board will be cleared and I'll be chipping away at your face until finally no more Hadronoxes can appear. This deck was feasible in Kobolds, of course, but one of the things that I think made it a reality is one of my favorite cards of the new set: Ratcatcher. He's the Void Terror that's actually worth the 3 mana. He only kills one creature when he enters... but he only has to kill one, generally. Cube, Ratcatcher; 6/8 Rusher and now two more Dreadlords, in addition to whatever else is on the table. The (ahem) impact is huge. A key card is also Umbra, who's been available since Un'Goro and has appeared in a lot of Cubelock decks, but really shines here with both the Cube and Voodoo Doll for hard removal. Ratcatcher, of course, is also brilliant with the Doll.

Anyway, here's the list if you want to try it out:

# 2x (1) Dark Pact
# 2x (1) Kobold Librarian
# 2x (1) Mortal Coil
# 2x (2) Defile
# 2x (3) Ratcatcher
# 2x (3) Stonehill Defender
# 2x (3) Voodoo Doll
# 2x (4) Hellfire
# 2x (4) Lesser Amethyst Spellstone
# 1x (4) Spiritsinger Umbra
# 2x (5) Carnivorous Cube
# 2x (5) Despicable Dreadlord
# 2x (5) Possessed Lackey
# 1x (6) Rin, the First Disciple
# 1x (7) Lord Godfrey
# 2x (9) Voidlord
# 1x (10) Bloodreaver Gul'dan

It ain't cheap (Rin, Godfrey, Umbra, no less than 8 Epics), but it's fun. Two recent examples:


Unfortunately for this guy, I knew he was dead the moment he played the quest. What deck of tiny minions is going to survive the despicable onslaught? I got an awful draw, having to dump Mortal Coils and a Spellstone at random moments. He'd just Silenced my Voidlord with a Zombeast and killed the Umbra I really had to play for tempo and got no use out of. I also missed 3 damage by thinking of Godfrey as a Defile when I played him. So, things were not going well and he Stitched for a Toxmonger, played Carnassa, Death Gripped my Rin, and "Well Played" me because he thought it was over. Then he got greedy and double Frenzied a Boar. And it was over because I brought in Gul'dan who, likewise, brought in the two Dreadlords I'd lost. Oh, and another Voidwalker and two Voidlords. You know what two Dreadlords do to an entire board of 3/2s and 2/2s? Yeah. I had both Cubes and a Pact in hand, too. Soon it was three Dreadlords...

So I think I can handle aggro. But the next game was the target audience: hsreplay.net/replay/PcpgnxYxHyNwZjvcrKt8Xf

That's exactly how the deck is supposed to work against Druid. I was, uh, more than a little surprised when he played Whispering Woods. He'd just seen me play a Dreadlord with a Lackey in play. Of course, I topdecked the other one, but still. Turn 9 sees the Despicable Barbershop doing their thing, right through a subsequent Plague. And he maindecked BGH! It's been literally years since I've seen that. He conceded as I sat there with an embarrassment of power cards in my hand.
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20 Apr 2018 00:03 #267885 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
One week in; a poll:

Cards that have exceeded your expectations:
Paladin: Silver Sword. I thought this would be an Arena card, at best, but it's actually quite useful in Genn Paladin.
Priest; Nothing.
Shaman: Blazing Invocation? I haven't used it a ton, but it does tend to find useful stuff, especially in Elemental decks.
Warlock: Ratcatcher. I already had high expectations and this is still my favorite card of the set at the moment. Works in Cube, control, and Zoo.
Neutrals: Baku and Genn. I didn't have a ton of faith in the odd/even archetypes, but the hero power changes are well beyond anything remembered from TGT, simply because they happen automatically, rather than hoping to draw the one card that triggers them. This is how the Quests should have been done.

Cards that have failed to meet your expectations:
Paladin: Bellringer Sentry. With so much good stuff happening in Paladin right now, this guy just doesn't make it. I've played so many games thinking that I could do something better on 4 than play him.
Priest: Coffin Crasher. I thought it would be a key card in Quest Priest. It isn't and the deck still lacks cohesion.
Shaman: Bogshaper. My expectations were not high, but I thought it would be useful in a late-game Elemental list. It really isn't.
Warlock: Nothing.
Neutrals: I kinda thought Mossy Horror might be a good replacement in control decks, but it's just too clunky.

Cards that have met your expectations, of whatever level:
Paladin: Cathedral Gargoyle. I knew it was ass. Sound the Bells. I knew it was great.
Priest: Quartz Elemental. Sounded meh. Is meh.
Shaman: Hagatha. It kinda works, if you can get there. But it's definitely not as impactful as most of the DKs were, including Thrall.
Warlock: Lord Godfrey. Does just what it says on the tin.
Neutrals: Rotten Applebaum. Great card and key in many midrange and control decks.

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20 Apr 2018 17:16 #267917 by MacDirk Diggler
Heard the big news? Ben Brode leaving blizzard. In other news they added Chakki, a pro player who is highly respected in the community. But still.

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23 Apr 2018 16:52 #268066 by rocketkiwi
Replied by rocketkiwi on topic Hearthstone Players!
Got my first 12-win Arena run of Witchwood, and it was - of course - with Paladin.

MVP was easily Silver Sword. Hearthstone agreed, as it gave me a gold one as part of my rewards to commemorate the victory. Only 235 gold in this payout, which is fair considering what a cakewalk the "final boss" was.

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24 Apr 2018 01:08 #268083 by Wetworks
Replied by Wetworks on topic Hearthstone Players!
I finally hit legend today for the first time. Normally I don't try for it since I play really casually, but with the rank floors carrying over from previous seasons I was already at rank 5. I hit Legend with Spiteful Druid.

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24 Apr 2018 01:45 #268085 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Awesome! Congrats. I'll get there someday. I need to shake my aversion to good decks.

But Hunter...
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24 Apr 2018 03:27 #268086 by Wetworks
Replied by Wetworks on topic Hearthstone Players!
Thanks! The season floors really help since you can work on it over time.

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