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02 Mar 2019 21:35 #293328 by MacDirk Diggler
Gotta disagree about Odd Warrior vs Quest priest matchup. I play both. There are mostly 3 viable versions of Quest priest... Benedictus fatigue wincon, Mechathun otk, APM test subject otk. Two versions of Odd Warrior, heavy control, Quest.
I think the Quest Priest has huge edge in all those. Warrior has to take the fight to the more resilient priest and get lethal somehow. The button has inevitability in Quest Warrior but I can usually fatigue them w Benedictus. APM priest can do upwards of 200 damage one turn. Mechathun they need to have Hemet buried last five cards for warrior to win.
What is the win condition of your Quest Warrior Jeb??
Talanji? I tried that and didn’t like it because it pulls Amara when played...ie Amara and Talanji are antisynergy. Then if that board gets Screamed, Vanished, Brawled etc. You got nothing
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02 Mar 2019 22:56 - 02 Mar 2019 23:03 #293329 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
My Quest Priest is modeled on Zetalot's, so the win condition is a 2TK of Alex into HP, MB, HP, MB, HP.* I don't even count those other decks as Quest Priest as much as I see them as Mecha'Thun Priest and APM Priest. Benedictus comes and goes in my build, but it's been absent for a while as Hunter has been so popular. (It comes back when Warlock and Warrior reign). But the deck, as I play it, just can't get through 50 Armor. Just can't. I can Amara twice or even three times, but fatigue will still kill me before an Odd Warrior that keeps tapping the button (my deck runs tons of draw effects, so it gets there much faster). In my experience, Warriors will throw away armor on Reckless or switch to Quest or Doom HP, and then I have a chance.

--edit--explain the win condition--
*Depending on the game, I will have prepped either:
HP, MB, HP, MB, HP = 16
MB, HP, MB, HP, MB = 19
Velen, MB, Coin, MB = 20

So, after Alexstrazsa, and assuming they kill it or make her unable to attack or whatever, I can still go for one of the above routes unless they gained lots of life/armor as well as dealing with Alex.
Last edit: 02 Mar 2019 23:03 by jeb.

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05 Mar 2019 14:55 - 05 Mar 2019 17:42 #293427 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
After the season switch, I went from 15.2 to 11.3 on a streak with Aggro Odd Mage. Then I took some tough losses and tumbled back to 12ish and started going .500 again. I would win in romps and lose heartbreakers. Started to mix things up with Expensive Shaman (minus Kragwa), various flavors of Quest Priest, and even Wall Priest (not my thing), and Control Paladin (oof). Most games would come down to are-they-some-combo-bullshit or not. I lost some fair-and-square matches to Midrange Hunters and Odd Rogues, but I was just getting pooped on by Mecha'Thun Warlock and Combo Druids of all stripes.

Winning and losing was largely decided in the deck selection screen. It was like we could have joined the game, compared decklists, and called it a day. I played Wild for a bit to cleanse my soul.

Came back to Standard and took Control Priest into queue. It has Skulking Geist for all the Inner Fire/Naturalize-driven combos; as well as providing a boost against Odd Warrior who run Shield Slam's and save Omega Assembly's for late-game. Even gives me a tiny bit against DR Hunter, as I find it's the Play Dead effects that make their midgame threatening. So I am stealing the Walls with Cabal Shadow Priest, blowing up boards with Duskbreaker and Primordial Drake, killing Lich Kings with Anduin and smoking people out with Mind Blast and Holy Fire.

2x Power Word: Shield
2x Northshire Cleric
1x Wild Pyromancer
2x Shadow Visions
2x Mind Blast
2x Firetree Witchdoctor
1x Divine Hymn
1x Acolyte of Pain
2x Twilight Acolyte
2x Twilight Drake
1x Scaleworm
2x Duskbreaker
1x Holy Fire
2x Cabal Shadow Priest
1x Skulking Geist
2x Psychic Scream
1x Crowd Roaster
Lx Shadowreaper Anduin
1x Primordial Drake
Lx Alexstrasza

Had a close game against an Odd Pally I was so happy to win. They punched me down to 1 life, had a full board, 26 life, and a Vinecleaver in hand. They emoted "Well Played." I had some minions to clear off a couple of threats, and Alex'd myself back to 15. They pressure again, and I blow up their board with Duskbreaker and save a chunk of mine (and stabilize my life) with Divine Hymn from Shadow Visions. Kill them the next turn with dragon hits and Mind Blast/Holy Fire. Well played, indeed.

Played an Odd Warrior that lost four cards to Geist, putting me ahead on fatigue, and I was able to stay there and prospects dwindled for them. Again, they pissed away a lot of armor (11?) on Reckless Flurry to kill a 4/9 Twilight Drake and something else. Broke them when I stole Ysera with Twilight Acolyte + Cabal Shadow Priest. They Brawl'd Ysera away, but not before she gave me a Nightmare and I sent 19 over the next turn.

Last one on the streak to 10.1 was Big Spell Mage that never really launched. They got Frost Lich Jaina, but I was Shadowreaper by then and was able to keep them off Elementals with Psychic Scream's and my Hero Power until I could Alex and burn them out.
Last edit: 05 Mar 2019 17:42 by jeb.

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07 Mar 2019 11:54 #293496 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Brawliseum this week, you get one free entry for Arena level prizes. It's a Mini Brawl, so every minion is 1/1 and costs 1. This means it's a Rogue shitshow of drawing cards, Malygos burn, Alexstrasza, Bonemare, Shadowstep nonsense. If they banned Rogue it would be a lot more interesting.

I killed someone on turn 3 and was feeling pretty cool, but my son was killed on turn 2, and the opponent didn't even have the Coin!
Them: Rogue Spirit (doubles Battlecry and Combos)
Son: Violet Wurm
Them: Alex Son to 15, Bonemare Spirit to 8 Attack, Shadowstep Bonemare, Bonemare Spirit to 16 Attack.
...Well played.

So, it's that's your kind of thing, have at!

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13 Mar 2019 01:11 #293730 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Having fun in Standard! I know! It's crazy! I saw Dane playing this deck and threw something close together and I have been strolling from Rank 10 to Rank 8 so far.

Deathrattle Rogue
2@ Backstab
2@ Preparation (Almost universally spent to play Vial at 2)
1@ Cavern Shinyfinder
2@ Eviscerate
2@ Sap
1@ Fan of Knives
2@ Necrium Blade
2@ Blightnozzle Crawler (2/4 Mech for 4 with DR: make a 1/1 Ooze with Poison and Rush)
1@ Elven Minstrel
1@ Kobold Illusionist (play two, I swapped in Minstrel)
L@ Spiritsinger Umbra
2@ Carnivorous Cube
2@ Necrium Vial
L@ Zilliax
2@ Mechanical Whelp
2@ Silver Vanguard
1@ Charged Devilsaur
2@ Deranged Doctor (8 Mana 8/8 with DR: Gain 8 Life)
L@ The Lich King

He's also playing Sonya Shadowdancer, which I don't have, but is amazing. You can pull off some amazing comebacks with Doctors and all kinds of tricks with nested effects from Umbra and Vanguards and Cubes in the late game. You can make some Brawl-proof boards too, they are hilarious.

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14 Mar 2019 13:20 #293817 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!

New mechanics:

Twinspell: When you cast it, it adds another copy to your hand. Doesn't need to be cast that turn.
Schemes: Spells that start weak but grow in power as they sit in your hand (Fuck tempo!)
Lackeys: 1/1s with battlecries.
They'll be bringing back cards from previous expansions that involve the 5 villains (Clearly, this is either the first step toward basic/classic rotation or an attempt to bring back some cards that were overshadowed by other dominant stuff (Genn/Baku) and see how they work.)

The one Shaman card revealed is a scheme that, of course, completely contravenes Shaman's theme of board control, since it affects all minions. And the hits just keep on comin'...
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18 Mar 2019 13:25 - 18 Mar 2019 13:29 #293985 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Hm. Shaman Kazakus:

Yeah, OK. I tried fifteen different fucking ways to get the tweet to show up here and none of them worked, including any link, so here's the link to the Hearthpwn page that has the tweet linked... www.hearthpwn.com/news/6460-new-card-rev...d-swampqueen-hagatha

7 for a 5/5 that does nothing is AWFUL... But a 5 cost 5/5 that casts two spells is interesting. According to one of the commenters, the first spell is always targeted and the second is not, so you'll always be able to initiate some interesting changes on the following turn. It's totally a control card and stupidly slow, but they're also both Battlecries, which means that they're both subject to Shudderwock and Hagatha can be discovered with Blazing Invocation. And, for once, the overall effect isn't subject to any RNG (i.e. you get to discover the two spells and pick the target of the first.) How much you want to bet that the initial design was totally random in all those respects until Shaman completely tanked again this year?
Last edit: 18 Mar 2019 13:29 by Jackwraith.

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18 Mar 2019 22:26 #294009 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
I like it. I wish it was cheaper (Shaman tends to be heavy these days), but it's got lots of synergy and upsides. Better than Zentimo or Kragwa, that's for sure.

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01 Apr 2019 11:22 #294825 by Matt Thrower
Replied by Matt Thrower on topic Hearthstone Players!
Was playing the Rumble Run just for a quest with the Warrior Totem that has one attack per armour. Looked like I'd lost the game. Was on about 17 health, dead Totem, the only minion I had was a companion that doubled all my armour gain. Opponent - Hooktusk - had a full board.

Turn start, Totem came back to life and I drew a Drywhisker Armourer. Played it, got 28 armour, used my hero power for another 4, hit Hooktusk in the face for 32 damage. OTK.
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01 Apr 2019 16:12 - 03 Apr 2019 22:36 #294840 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
Standard is out of control boring right now. At least around Ranks 12-8. Literally 90% of my opponents are Midrange Hunter or Control Odd Paladin. Probably because this is the "tryhard" range of ranks where you WANT to be higher but can't quite get there due to collection or play problems, so you play the statistically best deck to try and get there. I practically wept when I played a Warlock.

The new deck completion algorithm is on line. This could be affecting things as well. If you opt for a Custom Deck in the deckbuilding screen and then click, "Complete my deck," it makes the highest win-percentage deck it can with your collection. Paladin --> Odd Paladin. Hunter --> Midrange Hunter. Doesn't work in Wild though--or else it thinks HealZoo is the best build for every Hero in Wild.

Meanwhile, I am goofing in Wild with hasty Chargerwock tricks. Ideally, at some point in the game you play Doppelgangster (make two copies), Omega Defender (+10 Attack), and Armored Warhorse (Charge if you win a joust). Then you play Shudderwock and maybe get three 16/6 chargers! Or maybe not, but other stuff happened, so it's probably still good. I went Reno, because why not, and ended up with:
Earth Shock
Ancestral Knowledge
Crushing Blow
Lava Shock
Maelstrom Portal
Elemental Destruction
Far Sight
Healing Rain
Healing Wave
Lightning Storm
Armored Warhorse
Omega Defender
Azure Drake
Dragonmaw Charger
Hallazeal the Ascended
Harrison Jones
White Eyes
Reno Jackson
Crowd Roaster
Hagatha the Witch
Primordial Drake
Snowfury Giant

Like I said, even if the whole "combo" misses, things like this happen: you blew up their board, drew cards, made their spells cost 5 extra, and returned to full health.
Last edit: 03 Apr 2019 22:36 by jeb.
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03 Apr 2019 21:10 #294932 by MacDirk Diggler
I don't see many hunters lately Jeb. Mostly Zoolock if I had to pick one thing.

New Expansion is nearly all released. I am excited. Some powerful stuff and some fun looking cards. Shaman looking good too.

Murloc Shaman, Secret Pally, and some kind of burgle Rogue jump out as day 1 decks that could be good. Murloc Shaman especially should be nuts.

I may go to prerelease event in Anaheim this Friday and try the new stuff.

Anyone catch the WSOE event in Vegas over the weekend? Show matches w/ Zalae vs Reynad, Saiyin vs Amnesiac... they left them mic'd up and you could hear them trash talk in game. I think may have won Amnesiac a game. Saiyin misplayed Mechathun warlock and let Uther kill him.

New Grandmaster League announced. 16 best players each region play league events over a season. Bottom 2 get relegated. It's going to allow non-streamers to build a brand. Me likey.

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03 Apr 2019 22:53 #294938 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
You're up at Rank 5 though, I think it shifts up there. It was more mixed today, but in 8 games or so I saw five Hunters: Two Midrange, a Spell, and two DR. No Odd Pallies at least!

I was going to do a big thing on the rotation, &c, but I am fatigued. I haven't done any deep dive on the cards, but from what I have seen:

Warrior is just solid as a rock. They keep their good stuff and get more. They lose Baku, but honestly, it was never the make or break in that deck. I lose to Supercollider practically every time they play it and that's going to be around forever.

Lucky Rogue looks like it can do all kinds of crazy shit. They have to get a little lucky, but they will have plenty of chances, jeez. At least Baku rotates so I don't need to see this on turn 3:

Silence Priest will be a thing. They have legit Tempo options, which is weird.

Murloc Shaman, like... why. Ugh.

Warlock gets nothing, really, but their Hero Power is awesome, so Zoo I guess. I think they need one more decent Imp generator to make Demonlock a solid deck. Darkest Hour could become the nuts and will hem their design space for two years.

I am not sure about Secret Paladin, if only because it wants to play Secrets and 1-Cost spells in your deck are bad after turn 3. There's a lot happening there, though, so maybe?

Mage will be fine. They have gas. Sorry to see Black Cat HoF though, I loved that guy with Untamed Beastmaster.

Hunter gets nothing but it needs nothing.

Druid LOL.

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04 Apr 2019 00:12 - 04 Apr 2019 00:21 #294939 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
Well, let's look at what we got. www.hearthpwn.com/guides/6457-rise-of-shadows

Druid: I like the idea of Lucentbark and the "gain X bonus for restoring X health" cards, but I'm kinda wondering where the win condition is. It's all well and good to be a control Druid (something that's rarely existed in the face of the much more powerful combo and aggro decks; yes, Jade was a mixture of the latter two) but does having an endgame 4/8 scare anyone? Or, for that matter, will an 8-cost help you against aggro without some other cheaper minions to keep you alive? Are they trying to get people back to playing Druid of the Claw? Keeper Stelladris seems like a lesser version of whatshisname that let you do both. I like that they added at least one card for the Treant decks, but Crystalsong Portal seems very niche and I'm kinda underwhelmed by Blessing of the Ancients and the whole Druid set, overall.

Hunter: In contrast, the Hunter stuff looks interesting, because even though Rhok'delar is departing, they're still stroking the Spell Hunter possibilities with cards like Vereesa, Shimmerfly, Arcane Fletcher, and Marked Shot, plus all the Deathrattle (and Mech Deathrattle) stuff. They also have one of the best Twinspells in the set with Unleash the Beast. Hunter is losing a lot, but since it's been so dominant this year, I think they did a decent job of easing it into a new year while still providing material for current decks (i.e. what they almost completely failed to do in either of the last two sets for most classes.)

Mage: Holy shit are they cranking up the RNG for another class. (Shamans: Welcome to our world!) Kalecgos could be amazing. Could be completely meh. Khadgar could be either completely hated (Turn 10: Summon 4 6-costs and run over your opponent) or largely ephemeral (Turn 10: Summon 4 6-costs and learn how awful Shaman evolution could be.) Mana Cyclone? Random. Power of Creation? Random. Conjurer's Calling? Random. Twice. Magic Dart Frog is the new (random) Knife Juggler but not as good. And Ray of Frost is here to please, please get Mages back to playing with Freeze effects. I dunno, man. Didn't we want random Pyroblast wins to be less prevalent?

Paladin: "Well, since you've spent the entire year not touching any new cards except Shirvallah, since every other deck we offered was either non-existent (Gargoyle) or poor compared to Genn/Baku, here's a ton of stuff that directly serves everything we tried to foist on you that you justifiably ignored!" Nozari is a Heal Paladin card. Problem is, it's still not a win condition and heals the opponent, which is counter-intuitive. Tree of Life was used because it worked in combo decks. The combo piece in OTK (Uther) is going away. Everything else that isn't Secret-oriented is trying to revive Dragon Paladin that sucked even when Blackrock was around. Oh, and it's tossing in some handbuff elements, too, because those always worked. Otherwise it's trying to justify one of the most overrated cards in Paladin history (Gargoyle) or "Please play Paladin secrets again... even though we're not reprinting Avenge!" If you want to play Secret Paladin, it'll probably be good. Otherwise, meh. Oh, and Mysterious Blade is righteously bad. Guess we're back to all Truesilver, all the time.

Priest: Now, this is irritating. This is just lazy design. Mass Resurrection is the spellstone, but doesn't need to be charged so it costs more. Convincing Infiltrator is just Obsidian Statue without the Lifesteal. There's no really new twists here. It's just more of the same with new names. They're even bringing back the Purify debacle with an addition that might make it playable(?) No one liked Wailing Soul, either. Guess they'll keep trying to hammer those slow pegs into a fast game hole. The difference between this set and what Hunter's getting is that Hunter is at least perpetuating themes from the last few sets, while Priest is just perpetuating the same shit since the beta. The cards are at least more powerful than Priest's Basic/Classic awfulness, but they don't strike me as particularly interesting. It's like they've run out of ideas for the class.

Rogue: Like Hunter, Rogue is the perfect contrast to Priest. Not only are they extending the "steal stuff for benefits" that they've introduced in the last couple years ("from another class") but they're also introducing innovative stuff for standard Rogue mechanics/cards (Waggle Pick; otherwise known as Shadowstep.) Both of the Kobold legendaries are excellent cards and Unidentfied Contract is good for a single-target removal and, like Waggle Pick, right in line with Rogue mechanics (Betrayal and stealing cards.) There's even a friendly-only Vanish. I think they knocked it out of the park with the Rogue stuff. It's all playable AND interesting.

Shaman: JFC... Murlocs? Really? The fact that no one played Quest Shaman past the first couple months of Un'Goro wasn't enough of a hint? Shaman being completely uncompetitive until Shudderwock and then for the last six months, as well, wasn't enough of an indication that Murlocs aren't viable as an aggro deck? Tribe decks work because the tribe does different things or has members that occupy different roles. Until they come up with Amazingly Fat-assed Murloc (a 2/5 that heals other Murlocs), the frogs won't be a viable tribe. They're too fragile and susceptible to all mass removal and most other creatures in the game. Plus, Shaman still lacks draw to make them viable. Why do Paladin Dude decks work? Because if you don't draw a card you need, you can make another Dude every, single turn. But with Shaman, if you don't draw another Murloc, you can roll the dice on a totem! Also, why is Shaman still the tempo-free class? Scargill will make your Murlocs cost 1. But you don't dare play him on turn 4, because he'll be dead next turn and wasted. So, you want to hold him in your hand until a much later turn, so that all your frogs are cheaper... since you've also been holding them, too. As a horde/aggro deck. Underbelly Angler is a slightly better Primalfin Lookout, since he's a perpetual effect, rather than a battlecry. Soul of the Murloc means your dead totems might keep you in the Murloc game. But... I don't know. Murlocs? Really? Swampqueen Hagatha sounds awesome. Why didn't Witch's Brew just say "Echo"? Mutate is RNG and only usable once. TOTALLY worth the card slot! JFC.

Warlock: Just like Rogue, they're putting out new stuff, but still using Warlock themes and mechanics; not only classic ones, but stuff they tried in Year of the Raven that got ignored in favor of Cube or Even. And they're still totally stroking the Demon tribe decks. Maybe they'll be viable? Betrug is the most Zoo card ever printed that costs 8. Playable? I dunno, but it'll be a blast to find out after previous failures like Glinda. Similarly, Jumbo Imp might work in a Demon deck. Darkest Hour could be teh awesome. Impferno might be broken with spell damage. Plot Twist is amazing ("Plot Twist!") The class with the best hero power in the game that draws cards needed a card like Plot Twist, but Shaman? Nah. Rafaam's Scheme is actually usable. Seriously, Warlock actually looks fun AND playable, just like Rogue.

Warrior: is now officially the Mech class for the forseeable future. I don't know if the Bomb stuff is viable, but it might be worth finding out. The problem I'm seeing is that it's all kinds of gimmicky add-ons to control Warrior and doesn't really add anything that screams "Make a non-control deck from me!" More Mechs? Great. But mostly for control. The Boom Reaver is cool as hell... but mostly for control because you want a copy of something big. Sweeping Strikes is a cool utility card... but mostly for control. And then the Bomb stuff is the ultimate expression of gimmickry. Kinda like with Paladin, I'm just not seeing anything particularly new or innovative beyond the gimmicks or the service to cards that didn't work before.

Neutral legendaries: RNG or combo-riffic. No one really sticks out except for Barista's possibilities.

Neutral epics: I like Batterhead for control. Whirlwind Tempest::Shaman as Injured Blademaster::Priest. Portal Overfiend can certainly take a slot for slower midrange Demon decks. There are weird decks that can be done with Magic Carpet. Unseen Saboteur would've been great against Quests.

Neutral rares: Tunnel Blaster may be the new late-game Tar Creeper for control. Mad Summoner might be amazing, but probably costs too much. Hecklebot might be the new midgame Tar Creeper against aggro. Portal Keeper won't take a slot for Demon decks of any kind (4/3, yes. 5/2, no.) Spellward Jeweler... maybe?

Neutral commons: Lots of cool Arena stuff. Travelling Healer might be a midrange/control thing. Faceless Rager might be kind of awesome. Sunreaver Spy is an auto-include to Secret Paladin. And, yes, if I'm totally wrong and Murlocs become a thing, Toxfin will be in.
Last edit: 04 Apr 2019 00:21 by Jackwraith.
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04 Apr 2019 17:06 #294996 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Hearthstone Players!
And just to reinforce the point, Kripp is at Blizzard and has been releasing videos of himself (dressed as Jaina) playing the new sample decks. His first one was him playing Murloc Shaman vs Bomb Warrior. He got rekt, without ever becoming even a mild threat to his opponent. There were about a half dozen bombs in his deck by the time the game finished, but he got beaten by midrange minions who took out his Murlocs and then beat him down. This was after playing Hagatha. Once you take out the Warleaders, the deck fails and it's not consistent enough to be a real aggro deck because most Murlocs are just vanilla minions after their initial battlecries (no DShield, etc.) Given that it's a sample deck, it also had a healthy number of Elementals in there, as well, so it's not even a real Murloc deck and it was still completely outclassed by a gimmick.

Of course, he had to get one more game in with it after that debacle and he played against a Rogue deck that barely played a card before turn 5 and the inevitable Bloodlust. So, if you get an opponent who gets totally screwed by the draw (or plays in a subpar fashion to make you look good...), Murlocs are great!
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05 Apr 2019 14:35 - 05 Apr 2019 15:18 #295056 by jeb
Replied by jeb on topic Hearthstone Players!
If you log on today you get Archmage Vargoth, and he is pretty fun. He's a 4-mana 2/6 (okay stats) that has "At the end of your turn, cast a random spell you cast this turn."

I put him into a Rez Priest deck and he popped out on a Shadow Essence... and then he popped ANOTHER one out on a Shadow Essence. Annnnnnd that's game. It took a few more turns, but that is just too tough for any midrange deck to beat.
Last edit: 05 Apr 2019 15:18 by jeb. Reason: typos

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