Barnes on Games: Champions of Midgard and Survive! Space Attack! in Review, Cthulhu Wars, Thunderbirds, new VPG titles

Mmm. I really like my WotR CE edition which cost me $700 (including shipping).

It's a thing of beauty with all the painted figures, so I don't care. I guess this is the same kind of thing.

Who's to account for taste?

The thing that keeps me swinging back and forth on Cthulhu Wars is not the price, it is the fact that I have read a couple of times that, like Dune, it needs to be played with a bunch of players who all know and understand all the powers of the races, otherwise someone will do something unexpected and run away with the game. I can't guarantee it will be played often enough to reach that familiarity level.

It's just six spellbook powers and one faction power, really. As long as the most experienced player briefs everybody on how each faction can win, I haven't seen that as an issue. The rulebook includes very specific strategy tips for every faction too. It is a Dune-class asymmetry, but it's much simpler. "Shub, spread out and summon monsters. Cthulhu, use that submerge power to hit any weak point on the map. KIY- desecrate early and often. Nyarlathotep, focus on gates."

It's also a 60-90 minute game so it's not like investing in a 4 hour learning game. It's EXPONENTIALLY simpler than TI3...much easier to grasp than CitOW.

But I guess if you are playing with folks that don't brief you, you might have an instance where you don't understand how to approach a faction.

I learned the game after being on a plane for 3 hours, being in a car for 2, after drinking.

The game is, as I said, very old school and basic. There's no CRT but there's a unit chart, to give an idea of the scope of the game.

Learning the factions is a BIG DEAL though. Had I known what my bud Jim's Hastur powers were I would not have gone after Al so hard, I'd have gone after Jim. I'd have defended the glyph spots more.

That said, I had a fucking blast. Van Morrison will forever be indelibly etched into my mind as The King In Yellow because of that game (Slim Slow Slider was playing in the background as the game began.

The odd and amazing thing about the game is that it is fun on a higher level. It's a fun game and solidly designed. But the design kind of fades into the background, sort of an invisible hand guiding the players' interactions. It's very subtle.

There really isn't a "learning game". No need for one. Maybe a "learning turn" at most. The best way to teach it is to break out a faction, show physically what shit does and how many points of Juice (as I dubbed the Power Track) things take to do. Show how the power and ritual tracks work. THATS IT. 10 minutes, tops.

Then, each player should read their spells and what their GOO's powers are, so everyone knows. 20 minutes from soup to nuts, and it can be done while playing. Seriously.

If you're worried about your group not liking it, don't buy until you've played. It's soooooo much money. But in my opinion, the game's price is justified because it is EXACTLY my kind of game. An updated, streamlined MB Gamemaster game with wicked sick models and over-the-top asymmetrical powers.

I despise that Barnes can get review copies so easily. I had to trade the equivalent of a kidney for my copy and this cunt gets two for free. THE HUMANITY!!!

Two copies, Peter my boy. Two copies.

We are pretty much on the same page here. It also happens to be EXACTLY the kind of design I like the best and want to play the most. All things considered, it's on par with Nexus Ops and I would say that learning both games is about equivalent.

Not that I care very much, but for those of you that indict games on such things, how 'bout that font on Champions of Midgard? Usually that kind of thing pulls out the graphically-oriented people around here.

I am not stating this just to be inflammatory, I honestly am just having a very difficult time with Barnes' positivity toward CW. Almost everything about this game seems to hit your complaints about game design decline over the last few years, naming a few: obnoxious kick starter model, overproduced miniatures (which you are lauding as a strength OUT OF NOWHERE for just this game), and being a game system vs complete package (even at $700 i promise you wave 3 will be coming). I'm blown away the positives you see overcome these things. I've read enough of your reviews to know its not simply that luxury aspect, which you now belong to, pushing you to pass over these things... but it is what my thought would be for such a drastic 180 if I wasn't as familiar with your work.

I myself would love to play this game, but I'm kidding myself already owning TI, Runewars, Dune, Chaos, and with Blood Rage incoming. Although, selling Blood Rage if its not my thing to fund a trial of CW is a very real possibility that has crossed my mind.

Well you know I appreciate criticism and frankly I'm surprised it took so long for someone to say something

You aren't wrong- there are issues about this game that irk me greatly- all of which are tied to how it is sold. My position on Kickstarter hasn't changed and I still think that it's a bad path to go down when we are getting to $200 MSRP games that people are backing practically sight unseen. One of the reasons that Psycho Raiders is so refreshing is that it is like counter-programming to the out of control Kickstarter miniature games.

But here's the deal. I requested a review copy of this game in part because I wanted to see what one of these "Cadillac" games was like. I wanted to see if there was something I was missing. And folks I trust spoke highly of it so I thought if nothing else, I'd be writing up yet another half-baked, decent but unremarkable Kickstarter title that if wind up selling or trading.

But I solo played it the day I got it and then with three that evening. And I loved the game- the design speaks for itself, I think, without the audacious miniatures and premium price.

So I have two options here. I can continue to rant about the cost, Kickstarter, etc. and ignore my feeling about the design, or I can come out and say "folks, this is a damn good game" regardless of politics or economics. If I were to be negative about this game, I'd be dishonest

And I like it enough- having actually played it and not putting $200 up front on it a year in advance or whatever- to be convinced that Mr. Petersen's work here with the expansions might be something I'd be willing to buy. I mean, this is not some random dude that came up with a generic, copycat game. It's the dude that made Call of Cthulhu and had a hand in making Doom, Quake and other foundational games.

But yeah, I honestly thought this game was going to be a derivative DoaM with big, silly figures. I didn't expect a highly refined, streamlined and editorial design that feels very studied, balanced, and tuned for maximum fun.

And yeah, I do kind of get the luxury thing now. I pulled out those figures with my friends and nobody tsk-tsked, frowned at the cost or questioned whether gaming needs an enormous vagina-mouthed Hastur molded in ridiculous yellow. Everybody laughed, wanted to hold it and look at its detail and play the game that it comes with.

That doesn't get around the fact that a full set of this game is $700...although you can buy just the core set for $125 or so, which is realistically about the cost of Space Hulk or that new GW Horus Heresy game. And it's not that much more than an X-Wing wave or what people spend when a new Magic set comes out.

I do wish the game were less so that more people could play it. And I think if a large publisher took it on and made 50000 copies instead of 10000, pacing the release of expansions instead of putting the entire line out at once it wouldn't have to be so expensive.

But there again...it's a small family run company that made over a million bucks and counting by selling a premium priced luxury game that people are willing to pay for. Can you really blame them?

TL;DR- I love the game, bottom line. Regardless of everything else.

Better hold onto that game for me, Barnes. Looks like I might've gotten robbed. Shit's not looking good.

I might be on my way down to Joplin, MO to go get some shit back.

Michael Barnes wrote: Well you know I appreciate criticism and frankly I'm surprised it took so long for someone to say something

You aren't wrong- there are issues about this game that irk me greatly- all of which are tied to how it is sold. My position on Kickstarter hasn't changed and I still think that it's a bad path to go down when we are getting to $200 MSRP games that people are backing practically sight unseen. One of the reasons that Psycho Raiders is so refreshing is that it is like counter-programming to the out of control Kickstarter miniature games.

But here's the deal. I requested a review copy of this game in part because I wanted to see what one of these "Cadillac" games was like. I wanted to see if there was something I was missing. And folks I trust spoke highly of it so I thought if nothing else, I'd be writing up yet another half-baked, decent but unremarkable Kickstarter title that if wind up selling or trading.

But I solo played it the day I got it and then with three that evening. And I loved the game- the design speaks for itself, I think, without the audacious miniatures and premium price.

So I have two options here. I can continue to rant about the cost, Kickstarter, etc. and ignore my feeling about the design, or I can come out and say "folks, this is a damn good game" regardless of politics or economics. If I were to be negative about this game, I'd be dishonest

And I like it enough- having actually played it and not putting $200 up front on it a year in advance or whatever- to be convinced that Mr. Petersen's work here with the expansions might be something I'd be willing to buy. I mean, this is not some random dude that came up with a generic, copycat game. It's the dude that made Call of Cthulhu and had a hand in making Doom, Quake and other foundational games.

But yeah, I honestly thought this game was going to be a derivative DoaM with big, silly figures. I didn't expect a highly refined, streamlined and editorial design that feels very studied, balanced, and tuned for maximum fun.

And yeah, I do kind of get the luxury thing now. I pulled out those figures with my friends and nobody tsk-tsked, frowned at the cost or questioned whether gaming needs an enormous vagina-mouthed Hastur molded in ridiculous yellow. Everybody laughed, wanted to hold it and look at its detail and play the game that it comes with.

That doesn't get around the fact that a full set of this game is $700...although you can buy just the core set for $125 or so, which is realistically about the cost of Space Hulk or that new GW Horus Heresy game. And it's not that much more than an X-Wing wave or what people spend when a new Magic set comes out.

I do wish the game were less so that more people could play it. And I think if a large publisher took it on and made 50000 copies instead of 10000, pacing the release of expansions instead of putting the entire line out at once it wouldn't have to be so expensive.

But there again...it's a small family run company that made over a million bucks and counting by selling a premium priced luxury game that people are willing to pay for. Can you really blame them?

TL;DR- I love the game, bottom line. Regardless of everything else.

TL;DR - "I'm a huge hypocrite"

See, I totally buy that the huge minis are fun to play with and add to the game.
BUT...
The minis are going to be the difference between me being able to justify the cost of the game and not. From what's been said in here (short playtime, simple rule set), this is a DOAM game that I'd absolutely love to have in my collection, but I'm 100% priced out of owning it because of what are, to me, totally non-essential minis. I bet you could get pretty much the same effect with smaller-scale minis, and cut the price in half.

To the point that it's in line with other big ticket games like Space Hulk, or a bunch of X-Wing/Armada, or a box or two of Magic boosters, then sure, that's true, and if you're already willing to drop that kind of money into a single game, then yeah, go for Cthulhu Wars. I'm not currently in the headspace that dropping that kind of scratch on one game is reasonable. Sure, I own Space Hulk 3rd, but I was in a very different place when that came out, and I wouldn't make the same buying decision now. It just sucks that there's no normal-priced option for those of us who'd rather have the Honda version instead of the Ferrari.

That's the number. I don't look at this any differently than Space Hulk. Expensive but cool.

Cthulu Wars is in no way a $125 game. Maybe 20 bucks...maybe.

The resemblance to CitOW is not just mild. It's quite strong. Strong enough that I would call it not inspired by but derivative of that game. And it is a weaker game overall.
I'd even go so far as to call it dumbed down. It's Chaos for people that don't like to put as much thought into their game play.

I suspect it has no where near the longevity of Choas either and after several plays, the charm of the ridiculous "bubble gum machine" figures will wain. I mean sure you can continue to introduce it to new players so the "wow that's crazy" reaction will continue and we can all get the same kind of laugh we get watching Monty Python for the millionth time.

You'd be wrong regarding this: "The resemblance to CitOW is not just mild. It's quite strong. Strong enough that I would call it not inspired by but derivative of that game." But I've been through that already.