Front Page

Content

Authors

Game Index

Forums

Site Tools

Submissions

About

KK
Kevin Klemme
March 09, 2020
37251 2
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
January 27, 2020
22391 0
Hot
KK
Kevin Klemme
August 12, 2019
8553 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 19, 2023
6877 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 14, 2023
6233 0
Hot

Mycelia Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 12, 2023
3775 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
December 07, 2023
3887 0
Hot

River Wild Board Game Review

Board Game Reviews
O
oliverkinne
December 05, 2023
3458 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
November 30, 2023
3836 0
Hot
J
Jackwraith
November 29, 2023
4417 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
November 28, 2023
3222 0
Hot
S
Spitfireixa
October 24, 2023
5306 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 17, 2023
3972 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 10, 2023
3021 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 09, 2023
3237 0
Hot
O
oliverkinne
October 06, 2023
3393 0
Hot

Outback Crossing Review

Board Game Reviews
×
Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

Legends Untold Board Game Review

More
27 Jun 2019 00:00 #298919 by Michael Barnes
Legends Untold, a new card-based adventure game from Inspiring Games...

A great dungeoncrawler with a diversity problem.

Read more...
The following user(s) said Thank You: DarthJoJo

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 10:16 #298920 by southernman
Really Michael, I do get a bit tired of your beliefs making major inroads into your board game reviews. You even said it yourself that it's based on Northern Europe lore where some of those mystical creatures originate from. If a games company from say Asia or Africa (or even a US company) put out a game purely set in that region where all the characters were Asian/African would you be trying to tear them a new one ? . Yes, they may lose sales from people without a european connection (or evangelists) not getting in to it but that is their choice to make for their product in their company.
Now if you have a leaked memo showing that non-white characters were explicitly banned from the game due to the attitudes/beliefs of the company then I will be right beside you in causing massive shit for them.
And your review of the game was pretty top, enough to make me have a look at it even though I have far too many similar games.
The following user(s) said Thank You: sornars, marcnelsonjr, Vysetron

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 11:23 #298927 by hotseatgames
Michael is right to call it like he sees it. What else can a reviewer do? While there may be a valid excuse out there for an all-white cast, it doesn't sound like this game meets that requirement.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose, Josh Look, Saul Goodman

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 11:24 #298928 by Saul Goodman
Good point - something that could have been so easily addressed. Had it been done no one would take much notice.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 12:46 - 27 Jun 2019 12:52 #298935 by Sagrilarus
With two starter packs and follow-on boosters, it would seem pretty straightforward to set one adventure in a different region. The decision to set this in the Saxon world was the decision of consequence, using that as an explanation for everything that follows is weak tea.

Had their second starter been set in the Middle East or even Spain they would have opened up a whole lot of narrative opportunities, and we would be discussing what (i.e., where) was coming next, not how white the game is.

I haven't seen this particular title, but in others in the genre much of what is deemed European in origin (monsters and legends) actually comes from other parts of the world.

Given the current political climate companies will be smart to immunize themselves from white supremacists endorsing their products.
Last edit: 27 Jun 2019 12:52 by Sagrilarus.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gary Sax, Saul Goodman

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 13:15 #298936 by Shellhead
I doubt that the lack of diversity was an intentional slight by the designer, and more of an unthinking imitation of the overwhelmingly whiteness of the fantasy stories that inspired D&D.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose, sornars, Saul Goodman, Vysetron

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 14:37 #298939 by Shellhead
Lord of the Rings? A world of several different races of white people.

Conan the Barbarian? Conan the Aryan.

The Amber series? Caine is "swarthy," but all the other named characters are white. Or albino shapeshifters.

Fafhrd and and the Gray Mouser? White and white.

Elric of Melinbone? A black guy named Otto Blendker shows up in one story, but he was from another dimension. Everybody else is white, except Elric is albino. Hmm, there seem to be more albinos than people of color in fantasy.

The biggest fantasy series written since D&D started is Game of Thrones. Maybe three named characters who aren't white, and that series has a lot of named characters.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 14:50 - 27 Jun 2019 14:51 #298940 by ubarose
We know that Hadrian (d. 709), the abbot of St Peter’s and St Paul’s at Canterbury was African.

If the Roman Army was ever there, then people from Africa, the Middle East and, of course, Southern Europe were there. Same is true if the Roman Catholic Church was there.

Language describing race is a fairly recent thing, historically speaking. For example, Euclid was African, but he was Greek because he was from Alexandria which was a Greek city located in Egypt. So was he black, white, middle eastern? There were no words for that. He was just Greek. Sometimes you might get descriptions of people as being "fair" or "swarthy." Just because there aren't any records from the time that specifically describe people using the race terms that we use, don't assume they weren't there.

So the historical argument doesn't hold water. And as Michael said "if elves, goblins and giant spiders are being hand-waved into this "fact-based" setting, why can’t a player choose to be a non-white human? "
Last edit: 27 Jun 2019 14:51 by ubarose.
The following user(s) said Thank You: mads b., Sagrilarus, hotseatgames, Saul Goodman

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 16:03 #298945 by ubarose
I think I would like to play this sometime. Although right now I am in a mood, where I feel like none of these huge dungeon crawl games does anything better, more interesting, or more fun than HeroQuest. I’m just waiting for that mood to pass.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ska_baron, Gary Sax

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 17:04 #298947 by Joebot

Shellhead wrote:
The biggest fantasy series written since D&D started is Game of Thrones. Maybe three named characters who aren't white, and that series has a lot of named characters.


Not to derail the thread, but come on. That's just blatantly untrue. The continent of Essos is largely populated with non-white people, such as the Dothraki. The character Missandei comes from the Summer Isles, whose people are described as being dark-skinned. Even on Westeros, the people of Dorne are described as non-white.

Good lord, that was possibly the nerdiest paragraph I've ever written. Oh, I've wasted my life ...
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 17:24 #298948 by Shellhead
That's a great point with respect to the books, but the tv show offers only Missandei, Gray Worm, and maybe a couple of folks from Dorne. It's been a few years since I last re-read the books and I didn't start watching the show until 2017, so I admit that I was thinking of the show when I posted that comment.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 18:09 #298951 by hotseatgames
It's also worth pointing out that if you subtract out the slaves, you really have very few PoC in GoT.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 20:54 - 27 Jun 2019 20:57 #298953 by Sevej
Just to point out, as an Asian (whose half of friends are Chinese), it always feels weird to have Asian in western-style fantasy. The monk or kensai classes never sit really well with me on D&D either. There are very few exceptions of this (like Diablo), but almost in all of these exceptions, they are very specific and prominent, which for me, does not work well for a game, just like how I feel strange playing Aragorn in an LOTR game.

Just imagine it, an Asian style fantasy, with white heroes, you'd probably call it white savior. Would an Asian hero in western fantasy be called Asian savior? I don't think so.

I realize white privilege exists, but, please, whites, do not be too hard on your fellow whites. You can start complaining when someone paint all of their X-COM board game minis with blond hair.
Last edit: 27 Jun 2019 20:57 by Sevej.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ubarose, southernman, sornars, BillyBobThwarton, Vysetron, n815e

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 21:46 - 27 Jun 2019 21:47 #298955 by ubarose
I always think of it in terms of what it means to kids. When Space Cadets: Away Missions came out we got messages from people saying that they were so happy that it included two female characters so both their daughters could play. But then we got a message from a dad asking us if we could have a Black female character in the expansion for his daughter. That broke my heart.

We had tried to convince the publisher to make the character portraits cards that could be placed on any board, and to include a mix of genders and races. But the idea for shot down.
Last edit: 27 Jun 2019 21:47 by ubarose.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2019 22:01 - 27 Jun 2019 22:06 #298956 by Sevej
Uba, for gender I generally more agree, since it's male & female is everywhere. But even then, if it's something historical or has historical sensibilities, it has to reflect the condition back then. For fantasy, I'm actually very agree with 50:50 gender division. But the universe must follow that also, not just the heroes.

For SCAM, of course, it should have been racially & sexually diverse, just like XCOM. But sometimes, it's more about logistics, than bad political intention.

Just an interesting side note, I *almost always* play female in computer games, where possible.
Last edit: 27 Jun 2019 22:06 by Sevej.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Gary Sax
Time to create page: 0.196 seconds