AP and BSG: Fuck shit balls

If anybody is hunched over the board contemplating cards then they've already failed as far as I'm concerned and they need to quietly excuse themselves to the EL GRANDE table.

I've seen a couple of games (that I wasn't in, gods bless me) that were like this. Lots of quiet contemplation and min-maxing for the best possible plays. No bickering, blind accusations, trumped-up prosecutions, somebody pointing inconsequential bullshit like the way somebody is sitting as a Cylon indicator, yelling, cussing, or rowdiness.

I've heard of five and six hour games where the players walked away hating the game. Or bitching because it's "impossible" to win.

Some people just don't get it. Some people can't enjoy a game that is about playing and interacting and isn't entirely processional and based on following rules. Some people just can't handle freeform games like BSG. You see similar reactions to COSMIC ENCOUNTER, strangely enough, when people just don't get what it's all about.

Oh, and another thing. Anybody that bitches about "downtime" in BSG needs to be thrown out the airlock. There is zero downtime in BSG. You should be directly involved in deliberations, planning, and watching what other players are doing every single minute of the game. If you're "waiting for your turn" then BSG is not for you in the first place.

It's one of the biggest strengths in a game full of strengths- the game flow is continual and nonstop, completely uninterrupted by process or "waiting for your turn".

Well, after my bitching that the humans never win, guess what happened to me on Sunday?

I was a cylon from the beginning and the humans won!

I was president Roslin, Cylon. I was doing a good job tossing them evil crisis cards on my turn, but my buddy Dave got a chance to look at my card and outed me. I blamed that person as a cylon and confused most of the table. At that point, I knew Dave was a human. I totally convince Bob, one of the new players, but Charlie is suspicious of me, as are the other two players.

So, early in the second half, I know there is another Cylon out there, but I don't know who. The humans are confused but after my accusal I had to be a little more careful with how I operated and they are doing pretty well. You can't exactly pull a lot of shit with Roslin after she has been accused.

So suddenly, the player to my right, a new guy I don't know (Bob), looks at Dave's cards and announces that Dave is a Cylon. At this point, I think Bob is a Cylon with me because I know Dave was a human at the beginning. We proceed to throw Dave into the brig, and a big crisis card comes up that will drop our morale down to 2 if we lose. The humans are getting close to jumping, but I think we can beat them on morale before then.

I can't do much on this skill check, but I know Bob can just Nuke this one because it requires colors he doesn't have. I'm fully expecting him to kill this skill check, drop the meatsticks' morale, then reveal himself and prepare to go caprica crazy for the win.

I am blown away when Bob, who I'm almost sure is a Cylon due to what he said about Dave and how he has allied himself with me ever since it was announced that I was a Cylon, Adds one card to the skill check and helps the humans win. Shit! They remain at 3 Morale.

On my turn, desperate, I pick a nasty crisis card and blow my hand forcing a loss on the humans. They realize I'm a cylon. Then Dave's turn comes around, I'm expecting to work to keep him in the brig. HE REVEALS AS A CYLON.

Yes, I unknowingly had my Cylon brother thrown in the brig. He was a human when he outed me, but became a Cylon at the half. At that point, I was so intent on accusing him of being a cylon to keep myself hidden, I didn't even consider that he might actually BE a cylon.

So, the humans got lucky on the last couple turns' jump icons and won!

Strategy point: I felt that as Roslin, I was better off remaining hidden so I could use my special power and throw the worst crisis cards at the humans, but now I think I might have been better off just going Cylon around the halfway mark and sitting on Caprica. Any thoughts?

I hope that the next big thing in EuroGames is the solitaire game. Then these anti-social twits can stay at home and play with themselves instead of inflicting their odious, passive-aggressive personalities on everybody else.

hancock.tom wrote:

Strategy point: I felt that as Roslin, I was better off remaining hidden so I could use my special power and throw the worst crisis cards at the humans, but now I think I might have been better off just going Cylon around the halfway mark and sitting on Caprica. Any thoughts?

In my short history of 5 games (all cylon wins), the biggest losses have come with the cylons revealed for at least most of the 2nd half. Yes - your ability at Caprica at Caprica would have been the same, but you would have been able to blatently play the worst crisis cards (cyclon fleet attacks) without worrying about getting caught. You then could also blatently sabotage skill checks which, with the help of the undercover cyclon, should mean most of the larger ones would fail.
I think there's a point in the game when being a hidden cylon trying not to be discovered by not sabotaging too often pushes the game to the humans.
On the other hand, your mate Dave blew it the most. The table was split over whether you or him was a cylon from the first half - so when he got his cylon card, to help the cylon team WIN, he should have revealed after a couple of turns in the 2nd half to take the pressure off you (his cylon colleague which he knew from seeing your card) and allow the humans to be suspicious of everyone again.

Personally, I would have both reveal and start to pummell the humans - especially if the remaining players are easy to browbeat and depress ... bwahahah .

I think the most dangerous situation there is is one revealed Cylon and one unrevealed Cylon. Cylons do need to reveal earlier if there is any hint that they are going to have to restrain themselves. That said, with just one revealed Cylon it is fairly easy to hold them off for the most part. The 2 card thing is huge, meaning that the revealed Cylon is probably at most drawing a 1 and a 2 skill card to sabotage with. Meanwhile the rest of the table, usually 2-3 players, are drawing 5-6 cards, probably more with locations, to beat the shit out of most skill checks.

Things still get down pretty low, but a revealed Cylon really isn't insanely powerful--but he is better than a Cylon towing the line to stay hidden. Also, I think the Cylon sympathizer rule sucks. If possible I'm going to play this game with 5 people whenever possible.

In our last game, I was dealt the Cylon Sympathizer card. It was fun to deal out my human card to another player, but the excitement of revealing was taken away. And as a kick in the balls, I was limited in what I could as a Cylon.

I just got BSG the other day and hope to play it this weekend with my game group. I honestly can't imagine people being so deadpan in BSG, because even when we've played Shadows Over Camelot, there has often been...

Michael Barnes wrote:
bickering, blind accusations, trumped-up prosecutions, somebody pointing inconsequential bullshit like the way somebody is sitting as a Cylon indicator, yelling, cussing, or rowdiness.

And of course, there ain't much actual game to Shadows Over Camelot, but that's what I always liked about Shadows, that it encouraged that kind of interaction. BSG definitely seems to have a lot more going on and more to get excited about.

There's more game in BSG but not that much more. So you should still definitely get your fill of browbeating each other.

Southernman wrote:

On the other hand, your mate Dave blew it the most. The table was split over whether you or him was a cylon from the first half - so when he got his cylon card, to help the cylon team WIN, he should have revealed after a couple of turns in the 2nd half to take the pressure off you (his cylon colleague which he knew from seeing your card) and allow the humans to be suspicious of everyone again..

In Dave's defense I think he only waited until after he had royally fucked the humans at least twice before revealing. The destiny deck just helped the humans the first time, so no one could pin it on him.

The more I play the more I think the game is really about when the Cylons reveal, and having 1 revealed and 1 unrevealed late game. The first Cylon needs to get his ass to caprica quick while the second waits around screwing with people, then goes for the jugular.

The game is brilliantly replayable. Between BSG and Cosmic, I think we will look back on 2008 as a banner year for FFG, despite Android.

Despite a year filled mostly with nothing! Then BOOM a bunch of great stuff hit at the end of the year.

hancock.tom wrote:

The game is brilliantly replayable. Between BSG and Cosmic, I think we will look back on 2008 as a banner year for FFG, despite Android.

Agreed. I am meant to be playing Android tonight, but I have been sick for the last couple of days and when I pulled out the "48 page rulebook" ( ) I gave up after going through the pages listing the 30+ different types of counters and cards.

I understand the complaints about the Sympathizer, but it really is a necessary evil for the sake of game balance. It simultaneously solves two problems... first, a potential scaling problem where a certain number of players throws off the proper ratio of humans to cylons. The other problem solved by the Sympathizer is that the potential imbalance caused by no Cylons in the first half of the game. It isn't much fun to be the Sympathizer, because you get hosed either way, and if you end up on the Cylon side, you don't get all the standard Cylon options. But that too is part of the balance.

Why is this game still not in TOS's Top Ten?

Schweig! wrote:

Why is this game still not in TOS's Top Ten?

Two reasons, maybe. First, TOS is heavily biased in favor of EuroGames, especially the most active posters there, so that tends to push many of the new members towards EuroGames. Second, it's my understanding that TOS has a slack policy regarding sock puppet accounts, so it would be easy for someone to stuff the ballot box in favor of their favorite games. That might not happen as much if all ratings required a sentence or more of comments about the game.

Actually, I just thought of pretty obvious third and fourth reasons. This game has only been out for a couple of months, so a lot of people haven't gotten around to buying it yet. And with the shopping habits of some people at TOS, there also some who own BSG but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.