Trashdome - Fury Of Dracula VS Castle Ravenloft

Wow. Just wow. I think I've been scarred for life without even playing CR. And since playing it would have been even worse, thank you. Time to re-file it from "avoid" to "avoid like the plague". Now to sit back and enjoy the rebuttals of the CR-lovers (once they've recovered from apoplexy of course).

Regarding "Fury of Dracula took scotland yard and improved upon it", let's face it, ANY change would be an improvement.

Okay, I'll accept that challenge!

Mr Skeletor wrote:

Hate the monster spawning in Descent? CR is nothing BUT monster spawns.

The Encounter deck is just as threatening as the monster spawns. Sometimes more! Something which you had admitted in just the previous paragraph. There's a huge variety that goes beyond just move and attack lol.

Hate the fact you cant keep the same hero between games in descent? CR doesn't even let you upgrade your character ingame.

You can increase in level, and you can gain items. I'm really not seeing how these are invalid. What more do you want?

Hate the tactical nature of Doom and Descent when it comes to moving squares? CR ups the antie with a rediculous 'tiles vs squares mechanic, bringing movement to its most 'gamey' level yet found in a board game.

So Descent is "tactical", but CR is "gamey". That's a bullshit distinction. Fucking around with LOS is perfectly fine, but staying out of range is not? Totally a bullshit distinction.

Hate how Descent with all it's variety of abilities and powers brings up combinations that cause rule disputes? Well CR does 1 better by putting together the most lazy and sloppy rulebook of all time so you can have rule disputes over the core gameplay.

So did you find CR to be too hard or something? Because I totally had no trouble understanding the rulebook. I found it easier to understand than most of FFG's 32 page masterpieces.

Not to mention, CR has a variety of abilities and powers as well. Picking your skills during character creation is pretty interesting, and will keep getting better as the system expands.

Hate being the dungeonmaster because you don't get to play the game? Forget it, CR automates things to such an amazing degree that now none of you get to play! Don't tell me players are "very involved in the party's progress" - the card draws and die roll is involved in the party progress and will determine how they go.

Yeah, I hate games too where I have to draw cards and roll dice. Let's play some elegant "no-luck" games like Puerto Rico instead.

Common choices in CR:
Split up the party to cover more ground faster, or stay together to enjoy group synergy?
Kite around a group of monsters so you can use an AOE, or take them one at a time?
Use a strong but risky attack vs a weaker but safer attack?
Take the time to disable a trap, or leave it and hope it doesn't bite the party in the ass later?
Use my daily on this tough random spawn, or save it for the boss?

And so forth.

Here's an honest question, Skelly: how often do you play as the heroes in Descent? Because I think that being the overlord is a pretty fun thing, but being a hero in Descent is a lot less enjoyable than being a hero in CR. Just want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples here.

Mr Skeletor wrote:

Fury of Dracula is what you should be playing at helloween. Save Ravenloft for thankgiving, which is the season for turkeys.

I've noticed that, on F:AT, people aren't hesitant to legislate what I should enjoy and play. It's now very clear that (a) I'm a failure at gaming if I'm not mesmerized by Magical Athlete and (b) my IQ drops 20-30 points every minute that I prefer Ravenloft over FoD. I'm not the most diehard Ravenloft fan, though I do like it quite a bit, since I see it primarily as family entertainment - but I suppose even that won't save my desperately dwindling mental faculties.

Regardless, the over-the-top sermonizing, put-downs, and kneejerk reactions can be very funny, which is why I tend to appreciate them despite their general silliness.

But you're right. You've all changed my mind. What was I thinking?

I'm hoping to play my copy of Castle Ravenloft tomorrow. That said, I never want to play FoD again. My last game 7 years ago sealed the deal. I was stuck in the Fog in La Havre unable to make my rolls to get out for almost two hours. What a shitty gaming experience. Can anyone explain what kind of 'valid input' can be done in that situation.

I'm voting for Castle Ravenloft even though I haven't played it based on the fact that I can't imagine it getting worse than that.

Stormcow wrote:

Mr Skeletor wrote:

Hate the monster spawning in Descent? CR is nothing BUT monster spawns.

The Encounter deck is just as threatening as the monster spawns. Sometimes more! Something which you had admitted in just the previous paragraph. There's a huge variety that goes beyond just move and attack lol.

What does that have to do with anything?
My point was that monster encounters are built off the shittiest type of encounters - monster spawns.
No bursting in on a room full of monsters here, organising a co-ordinated plan of attack before they get to hit you. "You charge the minotaur while elf-fag takes a shot at the mage, meanwhile I'll launch a fireball at the goblin bowmen in the alcoves to try and clear them out." Nope, every encounter behaves just like a monster spawn. Monster appears (one at a time), gets a free attack, is hopefully one-shotted by the next player in line. Rinse, repeat, snore.

You can increase in level, and you can gain items. I'm really not seeing how these are invalid. What more do you want?

Something exciting? Compare the items found tin CR to those in descent, advanced heroques, warhammer quest, etc etc. I'm sorry but "necklance which will make monsters miss 1 in 20 attacks" is fucking BORING!

So Descent is "tactical", but CR is "gamey". That's a bullshit distinction. Fucking around with LOS is perfectly fine, but staying out of range is not? Totally a bullshit distinction.

It certainly is not. Everything in Descent behaves under the same laws, so all figures need line of site, can dance in and out of range, etc.
CR has retard physics. Heroes behave one way, monsters a total other. This leads to bizzare things like kite-ing (Im right next to him but he requires 2 moves to get me, wtf?) and lining up monsters along tile edges where they can't hit you. Or zombies out running you. Or somehow magically shooting around corners without moving. And it's not that I'm talking about the odd funny situation that occurs in all games - these are common, encourage tactics that are actually how you win the game. You're telling me moving the wraith right next to me on an adjacent tile so it can't wail at me yet I can hit it are run to the next tile if I miss so it can't get me again and repeat this trick isn't as gamey as shit?!?!
Either use square movement or tile movement (like claustrophobia). This hybrid system is ca-ca.

So did you find CR to be too hard or something? Because I totally had no trouble understanding the rulebook. I found it easier to understand than most of FFG's 32 page masterpieces.

I didn't find this mickey mouse exercise difficult. But that doesn't make the rulebook anygood. Look at the number of basic questions asked on BGG that simply are not covered in the rulebook.

Not to mention, CR has a variety of abilities and powers as well. Picking your skills during character creation is pretty interesting, and will keep getting better as the system expands.

Most have pretty obvious optimal builds.

Yeah, I hate games too where I have to draw cards and roll dice. Let's play some elegant "no-luck" games like Puerto Rico instead.

Take snakes and ladders, replace the snakes with dragons and the ladders with magic carpets and WHAMMO! you have your next 10/10 game.

Common choices in CR:
Split up the party to cover more ground faster, or stay together to enjoy group synergy?

Since all directions are equal and it doesn't matter which direction you travel, this is hardly much of a choice. Once you work out you need to be popping up a tile every turn unless there are more than 2 monsters on the board, it becomes a no brainer.

Kite around a group of monsters so you can use an AOE, or take them one at a time?

Wow, happens once a game. Maybe.

Use a strong but risky attack vs a weaker but safer attack?

Again, a very obvious choice. If the monster has 1 HP use the safer, if it has more use the riskier. Considering the difference is normally about a 10% additional success rate, their isn't too much to consider when it comes to risk vs reward.

Take the time to disable a trap, or leave it and hope it doesn't bite the party in the ass later?

Once you pass a trap why would you go back to it?

Use my daily on this tough random spawn, or save it for the boss?

You have covered this one.

Here's an honest question, Skelly: how often do you play as the heroes in Descent?

We rotate OL, but if I'm playing with all new people I'll ususaly take it, so i'd estimate I play heroes in 3 out of ever 4 games.

Because I think that being the overlord is a pretty fun thing, but being a hero in Descent is a lot less enjoyable than being a hero in CR. Just want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples here.

WAIT A MINUTE!
BACK UP!!!!
WHERE THE HELL DID THIS COME FROM?!?!
Wasn't everyone complaining that they hated being the overlord, and no one ever wanted to take that roll and that is why robot dungeonmaster in CR was awesome?
Seems like a case of shifting goals to me.

A worthy crack, young padwan, but didn't you just get this game? Lets wait to see what you think off it when mr freshy smell comes off it.

Where the hell are all the hardcore fans who hyped this poor mans co-op and convinced me to going against my gut and buy it, lest I be an idiot. Like Loiter? Oh that's right, they no longer game and don't miss it.
That's castle ravenlofts legacy, "Enjoyed by people who hate games!" It's the budwiser beer of gaming.

wkover wrote:

Mr Skeletor wrote:

Fury of Dracula is what you should be playing at helloween. Save Ravenloft for thankgiving, which is the season for turkeys.

I've noticed that, on F:AT, people aren't hesitant to legislate what I should enjoy and play. It's now very clear that (a) I'm a failure at gaming if I'm not mesmerized by Magical Athlete and (b) my IQ drops 20-30 points every minute that I prefer Ravenloft over FoD. I'm not the most diehard Ravenloft fan, though I do like it quite a bit, since I see it primarily as family entertainment - but I suppose even that won't save my desperately dwindling mental faculties.

Regardless, the over-the-top sermonizing, put-downs, and kneejerk reactions can be very funny, which is why I tend to appreciate them despite their general silliness.

But you're right. You've all changed my mind. What was I thinking?

Maddog, please replace the thunderdome picture with one of Christopher Robin and Winnie sitting down having a lovely bit of tea together.

And fuck Magical Athlete. You pricks already stooged me with one Mickey Mouse game, no way I'm falling for your hype again.

Got to play Castle Ravenloft on our Halloween gaming day on Saturday, played three games in a row and most of us enjoyed it. We got slaughtered twice but at least one of us (me) wasn't remembering (or recognising) when to use some of their abilities.
I liked the simple tile placement and monster actions, but they are simple so I'm glad the game is short.

But I still will keep my vote for FoD as I enjoy it more.

Mr Skeletor wrote:

Because I think that being the overlord is a pretty fun thing, but being a hero in Descent is a lot less enjoyable than being a hero in CR. Just want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples here.

WAIT A MINUTE!
BACK UP!!!!
WHERE THE HELL DID THIS COME FROM?!?!
Wasn't everyone complaining that they hated being the overlord, and no one ever wanted to take that roll and that is why robot dungeonmaster in CR was awesome?
Seems like a case of shifting goals to me.

Seems like a relevant question after you shifted the discussion from FoD vs CR to CR vs Descent...

So you are changing your stance from "Being a dungeonmaster sucks!" to "Being a dungeonmaster rocks!" then?

I didn't ask the question.

It really has nothing to do with FoD vs CR, but if you must know, I don't mind being a DM/GM in rpgs but in boardgames, I've tired of that role (FoD, LNoE, Descent, MEQ, etc).

I never brought it up as a negative of FoD because it's just personal preference towards the role and not a sticking point about the game itself. But ya, sure, another reason _I_ prefer CR to FoD.

sisteray wrote:

I was stuck in the Fog in La Havre unable to make my rolls to get out for almost two hours. What a shitty gaming experience.

Was that the old Games Workshop Fury of Dracula? In the modern FOD, the fog goes away at the end of your next turn.

Shellhead wrote:

sisteray wrote:

I was stuck in the Fog in La Havre unable to make my rolls to get out for almost two hours. What a shitty gaming experience.

Was that the old Games Workshop Fury of Dracula? In the modern FOD, the fog goes away at the end of your next turn.

Been a looong time since I played theGW version, but I don't recall a fog roll, could be a misplayed rule.

Vote: Fury of Dracula

Mr Skeletor wrote:

Castle Ravenloft is proof positive that BGG has more AT cred than FAT these days.

If only you knew that when you nuked your account, huh?

And Descent is simply a bad game.

Edit: Oh well, too late. Fortunately I feel right at home here with my stupidity.

Mr Skeletor wrote:

Maddog, please replace the thunderdome picture with one of Christopher Robin and Winnie sitting down having a lovely bit of tea together.

Ha! You're just trying to make me admit that I like watching Winnie the Pooh.

If I do, it's none of your business.

sisteray wrote:

I'm hoping to play my copy of Castle Ravenloft tomorrow. That said, I never want to play FoD again. My last game 7 years ago sealed the deal. I was stuck in the Fog in La Havre unable to make my rolls to get out for almost two hours. What a shitty gaming experience. Can anyone explain what kind of 'valid input' can be done in that situation.

I'm voting for Castle Ravenloft even though I haven't played it based on the fact that I can't imagine it getting worse than that.

You could try playing the version that came out THIS millennium!