Game of Thrones TV extravaganza

GorillaGrody wrote: Last night's episode: "Oh no! There's an army with a totalizing and catastrophic weakness at its epicenter coming towards us from the north. Whatever will we do against these odds?

Call me crazy, but what if a handful of us more interesting soldiers go exploit that weakness while a bunch of background scrubs die for [checks watch] an hour, hour-and-a-half..."

I had that same thought. I feel like I already saw this movie when Anakin destroyed the droid control ship and the droid army collapsed, or when Will Smith blew up the mother ship and all the alien ships crashed, or when Tony Stark nuked the Chitauri mother ship, and all the Chitauri soldiers collapsed, etc., etc. They established previously when Jon went north of the Wall, that killing a White Walker instantly destroys the wights controlled by that White Walker. At the time, I remember thinking, "I know where this is going ...."

This was a weird episode, but I liked it. I can't think of another show that would have spent an entire episode watching a whole bunch of characters do very human things (drink, fuck, tell stories, sing songs, etc.) the night before their imminent demise. I kept waiting for something to happen, then slowly realized ... nope. This is it. This is going to be the ENTIRE episode. Kind of ballsy.

I did like that they finally ascribed a goal to the Night King (kill Bran). Now we know what he wants. I wouldn't mind some more background on WHY he wants that, but with only 4 episodes left in the whole show, I doubt we're going to get much of that.

Joebot wrote: I did like that they finally ascribed a goal to the Night King (kill Bran). Now we know what he wants. I wouldn't mind some more background on WHY he wants that, but with only 4 episodes left in the whole show, I doubt we're going to get much of that.

They gave you the why in this episode. The Others were created as a weapon by the Children of the Forest to exterminate the First Men and, by default, humanity. Part of what makes humanity a society is common knowledge/memory. Without that, society tends to fall apart (witness the Dark Ages.) Westeros is extremely vested in both memory and tradition. Killing Bran is a first step in removing that linchpin (the next would be destroying the Citadel.)

Also, things were happening in this episode. A lot of character points and continued development (Arya acting on a physical impulse, Brienne being knighted as a symbol of affection from Jaime, etc.) were present. The fact that no real action occurred isn't symbolic of them being ballsy. It's just them following the storylines that have been in place for years. I suspect that the next couple episodes will be close to non-stop action, but the moments where everyone is just sitting around and talking are the moments where character development and fulfillment often happen.

I've been enjoying season 8 of GoT so far. At one point during the latest episode, I realized that this was similar to the half hour before the Battle of Helm's Deep in LotR, except that I am much more vested in Martin's characters because they have more credible personalities and motivations. Sure, nothing major happened in a physical sense, but probably several of these major characters are about to die and this was the last we got to see of them before the shouting and fighting and dying begins.

Jackwraith wrote: They gave you the why in this episode. The Others were created as a weapon by the Children of the Forest to exterminate the First Men and, by default, humanity. Part of what makes humanity a society is common knowledge/memory. Without that, society tends to fall apart (witness the Dark Ages.) Westeros is extremely vested in both memory and tradition. Killing Bran is a first step in removing that linchpin (the next would be destroying the Citadel.)

The Night King's goal is to destroy the collective memory and history of Westeros, as embodied by Bran. But WHY does he want to do that? Is he pissed about something? He is simply following his initial "programming" instilled in him by the Children of the Forest, and he's helpless to do anything else? Does he view humanity as a pestilence that must be destroyed? Does he think his army of the dead need more "elbow room" and things were getting over-crowded north of the Wall? Is he just evil and that's what evil dudes do? Does he just think Bran is SUPER annoying like everyone else does?

I don't know. The Night King has never uttered a single line of a dialogue. He's a complete blank slate as far as characters go. We have no idea what drives him, or what motivates him. I know why Cersei does what she does, I know why Daenerys does what she does, and Jaime and Brienne and Theon and Jon and Tyrion and so on. I know because the show has laid it out over many episodes, many conversations, and many actions. But the Night King? Nothing.

The lack of a compelling villain in the Night King isn't a crucial flaw in the show, but I would argue that it IS a flaw. I want to know more about him. At this late stage in the game, I'm unlikely to get that, and that's a shame.

This "Kill the Three-Eyed Raven to destroy all of Westeros," is just a bunch of bullshit. The fact that Bran is omniscient should be reason enough for the Night King to want him dead.

All that aside, I thought it was a good episode. Maybe a little fanservice for my tastes, but what the heck.

This last season of GoT is relatively brain dead in the creativity department.

I'm able to enjoy it in the same way I enjoy all other shows that absolutely require me to remove any modicum of critical and rational deductive reasoning, but my eyes can't help but roll on occasion.

I'm happy to spend more time with the actors and their characters. I don't really care if they are swinging swords or chugging wine.

Joebot wrote: The Night King's goal is to destroy the collective memory and history of Westeros, as embodied by Bran. But WHY does he want to do that? Is he pissed about something? He is simply following his initial "programming" instilled in him by the Children of the Forest, and he's helpless to do anything else? Does he view humanity as a pestilence that must be destroyed? Does he think his army of the dead need more "elbow room" and things were getting over-crowded north of the Wall? Is he just evil and that's what evil dudes do? Does he just think Bran is SUPER annoying like everyone else does?

I don't know. The Night King has never uttered a single line of a dialogue. He's a complete blank slate as far as characters go. We have no idea what drives him, or what motivates him. I know why Cersei does what she does, I know why Daenerys does what she does, and Jaime and Brienne and Theon and Jon and Tyrion and so on. I know because the show has laid it out over many episodes, many conversations, and many actions. But the Night King? Nothing.

The lack of a compelling villain in the Night King isn't a crucial flaw in the show, but I would argue that it IS a flaw. I want to know more about him. At this late stage in the game, I'm unlikely to get that, and that's a shame.

It's the faceless evil. You know it's evil, because we have no way of empathizing with it. That makes it the true monster.

And yes, it's a huge flaw in fact. We are treated like we are too stupid to know who the bad guys are, especially since Martin likes to flip these things around as much as possible.

So we get to be scared when the big bad meanie monsters boo at us, or get to yell hooray and pat each other on the back when we defeat them.

No need to complicate a story with such things as empathy through exploration.

So don't you worry your pretty little heads about the monsters and why they are what they are. Papa Martin and Co. will tuck you in.

I'm sorry, CC, I usually enjoy your opinions on any manner of topics, but you're being way too hipster on this one. How "creative" do they have to be in the final six episodes of an epic that spans 8 years of broadcasting and thousands of pages of both prose and screenplay writing? Haven't they been creative enough to this point? You're also dismissing the entire season after two episodes which are largely quite necessary character development and summation before any of the major plot points except Jon's revelation have even been enacted. What critical reasoning is required when assessing this situation and how apparently poorly it's being presented? Everyone watching it and enjoying it is clearly a step below you in their ability to reason or have I misinterpreted your rather scathing assessment of our ability to think?

Joebot wrote: The lack of a compelling villain in the Night King isn't a crucial flaw in the show, but I would argue that it IS a flaw. I want to know more about him. At this late stage in the game, I'm unlikely to get that, and that's a shame.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions with ~6 hours to go in the season.

Jackwraith wrote: Everyone watching it and enjoying it is clearly a step below you in their ability to reason or have I misinterpreted your rather scathing assessment of our ability to think?

I think you are. I see no need for the reflexive defense.

Just sharing my opinion about being disappointed with how this season is thus far.

I think gorilla grody sums it up quite well above, and I'll leave it at that.

We have seen plenty of evil acts by humans in the first seven seasons of Game of Thrones. A case could be made that the Children of the Forest had good reason to seek the extermination of the human race if they faced similar acts during the human conquest of Westeros. In fact, I believe it was established that the Children of the Forest seemed to face their own extinction at the hands of humans when they created the Night King. However, it might be that the showrunners are unwilling to risk audience backlash and found it easier to just go with faceless evil. Just bringing up their origin was enough, and it was left to intelligent viewers to connect the dots. While the Children of the Forest were helpful to Bran, they did seem to be the sole survivors of a dying race. Reminds me of the plot to Hellboy II: The Golden Army.

Jackwraith wrote:

Joebot wrote: The lack of a compelling villain in the Night King isn't a crucial flaw in the show, but I would argue that it IS a flaw. I want to know more about him. At this late stage in the game, I'm unlikely to get that, and that's a shame.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions with ~6 hours to go in the season.

That is certainly true. But with just 4 episodes left, it's hard to imagine that they'll take the time to do a Lost-style flashback episode to give us the full background story on the Night King. But maybe! I would love that if they did. They have a built-in, fully accessible Exposition Machine with Bran's visions, so here's hoping!

What's the Vegas odds on Golden Company betraying Cersei? I'm sure this was the book's were headed.

WadeMonnig wrote: What's the Vegas odds on Golden Company betraying Cersei? I'm sure this was the book's were headed.