KeyForge: Call of the Archons - The World’s First Unique Deck Game coming soon

I got to pay through some cards and watch a demo at EUCON this weekend. I'll probably pick up a starter because it has the teaching decks, right? I'll be the proselytizer if I want to play in my sleepy little coastal village.

Anyhoo, looked fun. Not fun enough to drive an hour to Eugene for play, but fun enough if I can find 3 weeklyish players.

The teaching decks are nice because they explain keywords and ease you in a bit better.

I kind of think this is going to be A Thing...not like a Magic sort of phenomenon, but definitely a big launch complete with scarcity, speculation and hype. The pre launches were well-attended, there are barely any starter boxes out there at this point (even on eBay), and this thing with the naughty titles is drawing attention.

I really didn’t think about it before I saw the card backs, but that weirdo random avatar title is an X-factor. It’s kind of an intangible thing, but I think getting a completely unique NAMED deck is a big attraction.

It’s also what I used to call a “comic shop” game...it’s on the counter at The Android’s Dungeon, you go in to get your books for the week and there’s a $10 card game that you pick up on a lark. This is how Magic started, and it’s also how games like Munchkin, Zombies!!! pulled in big sales.

The Overwatch-y, Fortnite-y, League of Legends-y art and design are right on current trend. I think you could show it to most kids and teenagers and they’d be interested in it based on the looks alone.

Doesn’t matter that BGG is tracking it at 7.5 and there are “concerns” about various elements. I think this has got what it takes to make an impact.

The question is if FFG can keep the interest high...and if the game has enough depth to support organized play as well as heavy casual play. And it’s still not really clear if every deck you buy is going to be viable - especially in a tournament setting.

This thing seems fucking weird. Kind of cool it got made.

Michael Barnes wrote: And it’s still not really clear if every deck you buy is going to be viable - especially in a tournament setting.

No way. I've opened six decks and already hit upon one that's significantly stronger than the others.

The algorithms they use to ensure functional decks are interesting. They guarantee certain baselines, but not an overall power level. You're guaranteed at least 10-ish creatures and any cards that reference a named target/combo will contain at least one of the referenced card. For example, there are four horsemen cards that will always come as a 4-pack.

A lot of the cards target specific houses and/or card types. As a result matchups vary a lot. For example, my deck (Regitail, Fjord Sophomore) is basically a MTG mono-green aggro deck. To be fair it hasn't lost me a game yet, but it's struggled against Dis decks with heavy board wipes and cards that purge (RFG) my favorite creatures.

So, instead of creating an aftermarket for individual powerful cards of limited publication, as in the old MtG marketing scheme, there will now be an aftermarket for entire decks which randomly have the right combinations for successful competitive play in KeyForge. This is superb capitalism on behalf of the folks selling them because you now have to buy entire decks instead of just individual cards. Kudos! Kudos!

stoic wrote: So, instead of creating an aftermarket for individual powerful cards of limited publication, as in the old MtG marketing scheme, there will now be an aftermarket for entire decks which randomly have the right combinations for successful competitive play in KeyForge. This is superb capitalism on behalf of the folks selling them because you now have to buy entire decks instead of just individual cards. Kudos! Kudos!

It's not really that simple though. How do you know a deck is high quality? You'd have to understand the card mix and make some assumptions about great combinations. Or trust the person selling it when they say it's very strong.

charlest wrote:

stoic wrote: So, instead of creating an aftermarket for individual powerful cards of limited publication, as in the old MtG marketing scheme, there will now be an aftermarket for entire decks which randomly have the right combinations for successful competitive play in KeyForge. This is superb capitalism on behalf of the folks selling them because you now have to buy entire decks instead of just individual cards. Kudos! Kudos!

It's not really that simple though. How do you know a deck is high quality? You'd have to understand the card mix and make some assumptions about great combinations. Or trust the person selling it when they say it's very strong.

Roger that. But, if there can be MtG professional players, master deck-builders, and published successful deck lists in the MtG arena, then I also suppose a like expertise and market will develop for Keyforge. Are you saying that it is too random for that and it won't matter because no one deck will be successful against all other decks?

stoic wrote: Roger that. But, if there can be MtG professional players, master deck-builders, and published successful deck lists in the MtG arena, then I also suppose a like expertise and market will develop for Keyforge. Are you saying that it is too random for that and it won't matter because no one deck will be successful against all other decks?

There's counters to just about everything. I've yet to see a deck that just wins outright all the time. We may eventually see a handful of dominant decks that can reliably combo out, but if those win any official tournaments they're going to be chained into oblivion.

charlest wrote:

Michael Barnes wrote: And it’s still not really clear if every deck you buy is going to be viable - especially in a tournament setting.

No way. I've opened six decks and already hit upon one that's significantly stronger than the others.

I'll back Charlie up on this 100%.

While demoing at FFG's World's, I noticed some power level discrepancies.

That said, just because one deck doesn't work well against a particular one, doesn't mean it won't work against a differing deck.

Essentially RPS type of level checking.

An additional "but" is that I have noticed one of those 8 decks I played to be pretty dominant.

Not sure if it's due to playing it well, luck of the draw, or just better over all deck build synergy. That's my anecdotal observation.

My strong deck has been in the hands of three different players. A newbie beat me with it in his first game of KeyForge (although I was playing a deck I wasn't 100% familiar with).

My strong deck is incredibly strong due to a combination of Dis and the Wild houses (Not sure if Wild is the correct name, the one with the horns/creature).

It can bounce the entire playstate, returning creatures to everyone's hands. It can place damage on many different creatures. Even better, it earns its aember with action cards, some of which steal it from the opponent.

I've found no strong way to counter this. There's not so much a perfect series of combos as there is a consistent stream of aember simply for playing cards, while also several cards that disrupt cards in play.

That gain 4 aember give your opponent 2 card is a bit ridiculous IMO. When you're gaining so much aember from just playing cards and you don't even need creatures or reaping, there's no way to counter it. Stealing/capturing perhaps, but that at best slightly slows down the opponent and this deck will steal it back.

I'm not a master KeyForge player and there may be a counter, but damn this deck is ridiculously good.

It’ll be interesting to see how any kind of tiering or ranking system evolves to evaluate the power level of each deck...a lot of that kind of stuff needs tons of play data to get to, and if it turns out that there is some kind of way to rate decks...that may be how this balances out.

For example, cards, houses, or combos like the 4 Horsemen might be rated A-F or numerically whatever. You might have class A matches where you are only playing other class A decks. And the class A decks turn out to be the most expensive ones in the aftermarket.

Or it could be just like old fashioned Sealed starter deck Magic...who knows what garbage you’ve got, it’s all about piloting.

But this could be an issue- if you go to a tournament and buy a deck...what if your deck is just trash and has no chance of competing? What is the solution or compromise there for that inevitability?

There are certainly power level discrepancies. One of my friends had a deck that was powerful, but only if the right combination of cards came up. If that did not happen, it was a little too unfocused to function as a good general deck.

As for my power deck, this is what I posted in the other thread:

The second deck might be at the upper end of the power spectrum. It was Shadow, Brobnar, and Lumos and had almost no creatures (5 in Brobnar, 2 in Lumos, and one in Shadow). The Brobnar cards were stacked with "ready" abilities and direct damage, for board wiping. Shadow was all direct damage, splash damage, and stealing. It did not need anything on the board to generate amber, could steal additional amber from my opponent and could wipe creatures/artifacts easily. The only stall that proved effective against it was the card (Lumos or Dis) that could select what house I had to play on my turn, but that was only a limited stall. Obviously, everyone was new so maybe it would take some trial and error to overcome, but it certainly seemed more powerful. Most games other games proved reasonably close, but only in one game was an opponent able to forge even a single key against that deck.

Still sounds like you have to keep buying decks until you find a reasonably strong one....$$$ And, if it's too strong, then it gets banned, right? Do you have to buy a deck-box display to find out, or, can you gamble on just a one deck purchase?