Trashdome - Tide Of Iron vs Memoir '44

dragonstout wrote:

Generalpf - Huh? Tide of Iron has shitty components? Where?

Like when I pay $75 for a game and I can't get the pegs to fit in the holes, so I spend an hour putting them all in by FFG's advice and then leave them overnight and half of them snap off taking them out. It's so fiddly it's ridiculous. What *is* nice about it? The boards? That's all it has going for it.

I sold ToI and never looked back. What a turd.

jpat wrote:

Had ToI come out two years earlier, it would've been more amazing than it is; as it happened, though, it exists in a crowded field where other middleweight games (Combat Commander, Conflict of Heroes) do most or all of what ToI does with more clarity, more "grit," or more flair.

Haven't played CoH, but CC:E is ten times the game that ToI is, and with unlimited scenarios too. Sorry, I love FFG, the risks they take and what they contribute to the hobby, but Tide of Iron was lukewarm at best. Stillborn.

Michael Barnes wrote:

The way they did the expansions was so asinine I can't believe it. Selling the board separately...and the board gamers bitch about MAGIC?

Ditto to the hundredth power. To play some of the eastern front scenarios, you need:

1. the base game
2. the separate board
3. the EASTERN FRONT expansion
4. the AIR PACK, just to get the snowy hills
5. a lack of self respect

And what was the point of the TERRAIN PACK, anyway? If you have to become a collector just to get the pieces you need, why not get involved in real miniatures gaming instead?

I haven't played TIDE OF IRON, so my vote goes to BATTLECRY, or maybe LET'S KICK THE PEOPLE AT DAYS OF WONDER IN THE NUTS.

I wish this fight was between CoH and C&C:A, but I guess that wouldn't be Trashdome, would it?

Command & Colors doesn't work for 20th century combat.

vote: TOI

Michael Barnes wrote:

Selling the board separately...and the board gamers bitch about MAGIC?

Yeah, what was Days of Wonder thinking, selling an OPTIONAL accessory separately? Who would do that?

new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=444

People actually play Tide of Iron? I had no idea.

Vote: M-44

clockwirk wrote:

I wish this fight was between CoH and C&C:A, but I guess that wouldn't be Trashdome, would it?

I'd consider those both candidates for a future Trashdome. They clearly have crossover appeal to F:ATties even if they aren't pure AT. Its all about giving the crowd what they want.

Memoir '44 is fast, fun, and makes for a nice intro wargame. C&C:A is the better game in the system due to battle back being standard for every unit.

Tide of Iron failed to live up to the hype for me (and I love FFG). Three big problems: unbalanced scenarios, annoying pegged pieces, and overly abstracted combat (especially vs. vehicles). I didn't like Conflict of Heroes either. Give me Combat Commander and ASL instead.

My vote: Memoir '44

Its all about giving the crowd what they want.

The Iron Shiek versus A CASTLE FOR ALL SEASONS!

Nice T-Dome, MadDog--this one is really getting the blood flowing out there. One of the toughest aspect of this one is limiting the scope to the games in the 'dome. Who gives a shit if SQUAD LEADER {insert wrestling reference}'s both of them--SL isn't in the 'dome. I haven't played MEMOIR '44, but I've heard good things. I have played TIDE OF IRON and totally dug it. That gets it my vote. MEMOIR '44 has always struck me as too gamey--it's like they slurped the war out of WW2 to make it more palatable. Again, unplayed commentary--take it as you will.

One of the big complaints about ToI is the crummy scenarios---but I guess I don't have the wargaming wherewithal to recognize a bad scenario--they seem as good as the ones I've played in WAR OF THE RING or CONFLICT OF HEROES: BLAH BLAH LONG TITLE. Folks seem to gripe about the scenarios not being balanced--but wasn't that the whole frigging point historically? Who wanted a fair fight?

I really just don't care for the M'44 system. That game that really got me into gaming and made it what I'd consider a "hobby" was Space Marine/Titan Legions so ToI feels a lot like a scaled down version of that played on hexes and a table.

And even though for the majority of the time I've been playing ToI wrong (only activating about 1/4 of the units during a turn because of the jacked up phrasing that FF decided to use to describe a turn vs a round) during that time I still thought it was a better game than M'44 just because I don't like the M'44 system.

Vote: ToI

LvT

Juniper wrote:

To play some of the eastern front scenarios, you need:

1. the base game
2. the separate board
3. the EASTERN FRONT expansion
4. the AIR PACK, just to get the snowy hills
5. a lack of self respect

This is crap, man. You did not need 2 or 4. 5 was recommended.

And what was the point of the TERRAIN PACK, anyway? If you have to become a collector just to get the pieces you need, why not get involved in real miniatures gaming instead?

Truth. We still don't even have scenarios that make proper use of the Terrain Pack.

Very tough call for me. I like M'44 for its short play times and accessibility. But if I could, I'd play TOI even though it's much harder to get to the table.

Vote: TOI.

Well, finally, one I don't even need think for.

Memoir is a fun little game for people who don't really like war games. It's simple, it's over quickly, and you get to play with cards... whoooo!!

But TOI is huge, sessions can last anywhere from one hour (yes there are many short scenarios if you know where to look) to six hours, it has more options, better looking boards, more rules (but not too many), weather, generals... It has everything I ever wanted from a wargame since I first played Squad Leader years ago and thought to myself "if only it was a little bit simpler and had plastic figs"... well here it is. Tide of Iron is the king for me, whereas memoir is a little kid, I'd rather play Ancients then Memoir anyway. C'mon

Also TOI is a blast to modify and create homebrew scenarios (although they are behind on making a new scenario editor for the die hards like me). It's an incredibly robust stystem that can handle all kinds of fucking around with the rules and is best when you get into that headspace.

And it looks awesome when it's all set-up!

Vote: Tide of Iron (my favorite game).

I'm not much of a wargamer and haven't played the other games mentioned in this thread (CoH, ASL, etc) so can't compare, but ToI is wargamey enough for me and I really enjoy it. I don't have an issue with the unbalanced scenarios. Battles generally are unbalanced and if balance is really important to you, the scenarios are easily tweaked.

But all that aside, the choice is really easy for me as I don't like the Command and Colours system.

Vote: Tide of Iron