Trashdome - DungeonQuest VS Descent: JitD

I don't play chainmail either, I play 4th edition... having played since 82 I know the new editions are better. Designers LEARN... believe it or not.

Yeah, a lot of games get better with subsequent editions. So what? A revised and improved old game is still an old game. The new Risk is, in some ways, better than the old Risk, but it's still fucking Risk. It's also better than half of the shitty games that have been released since the original that try to do the same thing as Risk does.

Without Heroquest there would be no Descent.. sure, and heroquest plus all of it's expansions sit unplayed on my shelf.. .no one wants to play them anymore because of Descent. The old Arkham is not as good as the new one. I'd never break out old Arkham now, why bother. We play Dune a little bit, but we all prefer TI3. Cosmic, Borderlands... I'd rather play Chaos in the Old World, Magic Realm... uh, I'd rather not play it at all. Tales of Arabian Knights.. same thing (having not played MEQ I won't say the obvious... but I'm pretty sure I'd rather play that).

You know, I could just reverse the order of the game titles in every sentence of this quote, and the argument will be just as compelling (i.e. not at all compelling) in the other direction.

Not all of those old games get played any more... because they just are not as good as you remember.

Many games, old and new, don't get played for a variety of reasons. How often they get played has nothing to do with how good they are. Either a game is good, or it isn't.

Descent is.

Hey, don't get me wrong, it takes a hell of a game to age gracefully over 4 whole years, but don't you think Descent being as good as you remember it would be a little more significant if your memory had to go, say, two presidents back?

While I do enjoy stripped down bouncy minimalist rock and roll. Rush fucking kicks ass, first and best concert I ever attended. They played 2112 in its entirety! 15 minute Neal Peart drum solo! Sure I didn't give a shit about the music they played from their then new album Test for Echo, but those old dudes put out the sweet tunes. (P.S. I'm under thirty)

VOTE RUSH!

But I will have to agree with Barnes about the games:

Vote: DungeonQuest

Sure I didn't give a shit about the music they played from their then new album Test for Echo...

"Driven" is a pretty cool song, though.

mjl1783 wrote:

Sure I didn't give a shit about the music they played from their then new album Test for Echo...

"Driven" is a pretty cool song, though.

Granted, but you know what I'm saying. When you go to see a band with such an awesome back catalog, their new stuff just doesn't seem to be nearly as exciting.

Hey, don't get me wrong, it takes a hell of a game to age gracefully over 4 whole years, but don't you think Descent being as good as you remember it would be a little more significant if your memory had to go, say, two presidents back?

There's a reason your memory has to go back that far for Dungeonquest, because you don't play the fucking thing. It's just cool to vote for the old games.

I've played DungeonQuest more recently than I've played Descent. I think Descent is a bit bloated for what it is; it just feels so slow and overburdened. DungeonQuest may be all the way to the other extreme, but I find that extreme much more fun.

Vote: DUNGEONQUEST

After last week's thunderdome and deleting his account, I think if DESCENT loses this match-up, Mr. Skeletor will suffer a mental breakdown or at least smash his iPhone against a wall in anger. Maybe he and Van can open a manly self-help group against sadness caused by internet drama.

I don't necessarily want this to happen, but I think it's better than having all these negative waves buzzing around F:AT.

Schweig! wrote:

I don't necessarily want this to happen, but I think it's better than having all these negative waves buzzing around F:AT.

So why didn't you vote for descent then? Liar!

Because you have to understand that people voting for DUNGEONQUEST aren't doing this to hurt you.


Edit: Except for me.

JonJacob wrote:

The problem with the cult of the old is that they can't appreciate how great some of the new games actually are, their nostalgia has blinded them.

Well, if that's your description of the cult of the old, you can consider me well out of it. Games today are on average at a better level of quality in every way - design-wise, components-wise, fun-wise. There are very few reprints of games from the 80's which haven't improved on the originals, often quite considerably. I know for a fact that a large number of the games people go all misty-eyed over are, in fact, crap, because I still get to play a lot of them from time to time.

But Dungeonquest is different. It hasn't been reprinted (Tomb is just a pale imitation) and is one of the few of those nostalgic classics that (IMO) really deserves its status. I still play it regularly and have a blast doing so. Yes it's almost entirely mindless but it's so short, simple, quick playing, mean and above all fun that I couldn't care less. Nor can you substitute modern "push your luck" games for the same effect as they offer far less narrative and entertainment. It's one-of-a-kind, a classic, will be a worthy winner in this Trashdome.

Actually, Dungeonquest HAS been reprinted, but only in Swedish (Drakborgen Legenden - look it up on TOS if you wish, I popped a review there some years ago). The new version is generally regarded as shit by fans of the 80's version. It basically does away with most of the card piles: trap cards, doortrap cards, search cards, all are mixed into the room card pile, which might seem slick but actually merely feels bland. The largest changes were that the sun didn't go evenly - instead you rolled a 0-0-0-1-1-2 die to see if time passed, (which initially felt like a stinker but made for some good stuff), and secondly that empty rooms were "empty" - you didn't draw a new room card if you re-entered a room. There were some niceties in there, like undefeated monsters staying on the board, and the combat system which is one of the best I've seen in similar games - a four-way scissors-paper-stone with a couple of twists.

MattDP wrote:

But Dungeonquest is different. It hasn't been reprinted (Tomb is just a pale imitation)

That's like saying a pile of shit is a pale imitation of a delicious hot fudge sundae.

Vote: Descent. I only wish I could play it more. I have played it two player--but I do get sick of being the overlord. I haven't tried the Road to Legend yet--but I do own it. I always seem to be forgetting crap, though, when playing.

Man, it's like Descent and Dungeonquest are two halves of the best game ever. If you could combine Descent's modern sensibilities and design, with the fast pace and unpredictability of Dungeonquest you'd solve most of the problems with either game.

In the end though, Dungeonquest requires the Heroes Expansion to be really fun and Descent is playable out of the box. So I vote Descent.

Best comment here, John. It's true- if somehow DESCENT and DUNGEONQUEST could have a baby, it would probably be the best dungeon crawl ever.

I don't know that HEROES is a necessity for DQ though- it adds some cool stuff, but the base game is one of those that is complete enough that you wouldn't miss it if you didn't know it existed. I don't really care for CATACOMBS, I think it sort of takes away from the directness and actually makes the game close to impossible. The problem is that the underworld part is kind of an entire subsystem that isn't the same as the core game so it feels bulky and without much payoff.