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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

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Let's Talk About Root

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04 Mar 2021 15:01 - 04 Mar 2021 15:01 #320061 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
www.kickstarter.com/projects/2074786394/...ansion/posts/3119670

So I think that the factions are the flashy additions in this KS, especially since they are more big footprint factions, but I think the bigger deal for people who have played a decent amount are the minor factions and the setup rules. Having a catchup mechanism in the game is going to lead to a lot of shake-up to the broader faction meta IMO.
Last edit: 04 Mar 2021 15:01 by Gary Sax.
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04 Mar 2021 17:22 #320078 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
www.twitch.tv/videos/936936539

Here's a Leder steam of the hirelings and variable setup mechanics.

They haven't said this is an influence, but I am getting huge TI:4 vibes from some of their additions over time. The Diplomat ally, for example, is like a Ceasefire card in TI. I believe there is also an expensive card to change turn order if you buy it with influence to double turn.
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04 Mar 2021 22:31 #320094 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Let's Talk About Root
That was a great game to watch and very instructive as to how the Hirelings can really change low player-count games. However, one thing I was confused about (I had it full screen and wasn't watching the chat if they talked about it there) was when Marshall went into turmoil and said he had "net loss of zero" despite a number of bird cards in his Decree, in addition to the Viziers. Did he have a card crafted that reduced the point loss somehow? Maybe I'm just forgetting something about the E&P deck.
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04 Mar 2021 23:19 #320095 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
I only had time to watch about 1/3 of this game so far, so I could be wrong.

Having watched a little bit of Root on stream, usually what people who say that mean is that since Bird scoring follows pretty immediately after turmoil, it's the -bird turmoil cards +roost points. It's often pretty much calculated together. So they'll say "net -1" when what happened is -4 from having 4 bird cards but +3 in evening from roosts.
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05 Mar 2021 08:46 #320104 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Let's Talk About Root
Ah, right. I totally glossed over going right to evening and scoring. The funny thing is, I've even done the Buildrr strategy and gone into turmoil late the way he did. Don't know why I blanked on that. Been a while since I've played the birds, I guess.

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11 Mar 2021 10:06 #320364 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
spacebiff.com/2021/03/10/root-4/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Here are Dan Thurot's thoughts on this, fwiw. His take on hirelings being the main add are Interesting.
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11 Mar 2021 11:01 #320368 by Jackwraith
Replied by Jackwraith on topic Let's Talk About Root
I think he missed one of the best parts of the advanced setup, in which several factions (like the Lizards) are more fully-fledged when they start the game. But I kind of agree with him about the Hirelings. The more I hear about them, the better they sound, since they can provide all kinds of new texture to the game whether you're using a new faction or not AND they can fill gaps in different player counts. It's really a smart idea that I think they were approaching with the E&P deck, which has many faction abilities mixed in, but became fully realized here.
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11 Mar 2021 11:16 #320369 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
Definitely Jackwraith, I see tons of the sort of pure utility DNA represented by the exiles and partisans deck in this thing and *especially* the dynamic setup too. That 3p game using the hirelings I linked above, they deeply affect the game... but also a lot of the game was already silently shaped by the setup choices.

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11 Mar 2021 12:19 #320375 by mezike
Replied by mezike on topic Let's Talk About Root
Darn it. I was all set to pass on this one, and even to sell off everything except the base game and partisans, but the minor factions look fairly transformative in making the game balance better wrt both faction mix and player familiarity/capability. It might be that base game + hirelings is the ideal combination for us, allowing opportunity for greater familiarity with a small number of factions whist having the hirelings shake up each game in different ways. I still don't know though, the middle package seems to be the one to go for but with shipping it's still ~£75 - probably worth it for the hirelings alone but still a big investment. The question I'm asking myself is if root is really a 200-bucks game.
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11 Mar 2021 12:47 - 11 Mar 2021 12:48 #320377 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
Yeag it's tough. I'm not sure anything besides the base box low pledge represents value, even though I'm getting it all. But the base box has the new factions, hirelings, and advanced setup so I don't think there's any real need for more than that. The extra hirelings in the middle tier is nice but I think a questionable value.
Last edit: 11 Mar 2021 12:48 by Gary Sax.
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11 Mar 2021 13:25 - 11 Mar 2021 13:27 #320389 by Count Orlok
Replied by Count Orlok on topic Let's Talk About Root
I assume the hireling can be tried out on TTS? They just might be enough to get me onboard trying Root out, although the price was too much for me to commit to backing it (among other reasons). The new factions also look pretty interesting. It seems like the more they expand the game the more the Vagabond gets shoved into the corner. Do you all still play with that faction or have the expansions made it obsolete? It seems like the game is actually becoming less asymmetrical over time rather than more.

When I was watching the tournament online, most everyone seemed to agree that the Vagabond is groan-worthy and annoying. Having not played, they seem like the least interactive and fun to have around.
Last edit: 11 Mar 2021 13:27 by Count Orlok.

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11 Mar 2021 13:40 - 11 Mar 2021 13:41 #320391 by Disgustipater
Replied by Disgustipater on topic Let's Talk About Root
When us TWBG folk were playing it regularly on TTS, we never used the vagabond. I agree that there’s no reason to use him unless a new player is in the mix and you want to give them a less complicated introduction.
Last edit: 11 Mar 2021 13:41 by Disgustipater.
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11 Mar 2021 14:39 #320398 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root

Count Orlok wrote: I assume the hireling can be tried out on TTS? They just might be enough to get me onboard trying Root out, although the price was too much for me to commit to backing it (among other reasons). The new factions also look pretty interesting. It seems like the more they expand the game the more the Vagabond gets shoved into the corner. Do you all still play with that faction or have the expansions made it obsolete? It seems like the game is actually becoming less asymmetrical over time rather than more.

When I was watching the tournament online, most everyone seemed to agree that the Vagabond is groan-worthy and annoying. Having not played, they seem like the least interactive and fun to have around.


Yeah, they are available right now in the TTS. 4 of the hirelings come in the base marauder box along with advanced setup rules.

Yeah, in the Tabletop Simulator player meta (Woodland Warriors discord, mostly), people don't love the vagabond. I think one of the reasons is that they're pretty on rails, and can only be restrained by the rest of the table cooperating early to consistently punch them and not produce certain items. In particular, it turns out that under more efficient tourney-style play many of the vagabond mechanisms aren't really that useful, the vagabond is really good because it is an absolute murder machine and incredible at fighting once it gets two or more swords. No one quests as the vagabond in a tourney unless all the stars align, for example.

When we played a lot last summer we didn't have anything about not playing the vagabond. This all brings in a lot of the discussions around some of the highly played eurogames, Magic, Twilight Imperium, X-wing etc where you have a super efficient tournament meta that plays out a certain way but that people just hanging out and playing don't have to play in that meta mindset.

fwiw, I think the hirelings and advanced setup are a godsend even for the sort of low level play that I have done, to let each game seem really different and have an explicit catch-up mechanism when someone surges ahead out of control of the other players. I actually think hirelings *especially* useful for casual play. Inexperienced players don't know when they're letting a player hit their high gear to dunk the board in like two high score turns, so casual players get some pretty uncompetitive stomps in their game. This is going to really change that, some of these faction powers can throw a hard wrench in the works.
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12 Mar 2021 17:04 - 12 Mar 2021 17:05 #320506 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Let's Talk About Root
www.twitch.tv/videos/945596614

Yeah, there's a lot more going on if you use the hirelings in 2p play, in a pretty good way imo.

The Badgers still seem a little weird to me, even though I'm most excited about that faction. The Rats feel very finished and polished to me.
Last edit: 12 Mar 2021 17:05 by Gary Sax.

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13 Mar 2021 22:28 #320541 by Jexik
Replied by Jexik on topic Let's Talk About Root
Kinda wish the kickstarter was going a little longer. Not sure I can justify it right now.
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