Coronavirus

There is a drug that prevents HIV transmission if you take it before or I think right after exposure. Trivium? Something like that.

Even in the 90s there were post exposure drug treatments. 30 days of 12-15 horse pills a day. Ask me how I know.

But HIV is kind of a different case because it is really a behavior disease, not something you will get just out and about in your normal day. A vaccine would be awesome though, especially in the underdeveloped countries with high hiv rates.

Well, with the new? WHO recommendation to NOT use lockdowns for extended periods hopefully you guys in countries/states that continue to enforce lockdowns (illegally in some places, real dictator type stuff) will see the light and relax them in favor of more scientific, humane, and effective methods.

www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/who-off...l-method/ar-BB19TBUo

Seems to be working in Israel

jason10mm wrote: Well, with the new? WHO recommendation to NOT use lockdowns for extended periods hopefully you guys in countries/states that continue to enforce lockdowns (illegally in some places, real dictator type stuff) will see the light and relax them in favor of more scientific, humane, and effective methods.

www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/who-off...l-method/ar-BB19TBUo

If WHO say not to do it then it is probably the right thing to do, they have just proven themselves to be academic clowns.
And what's this shit about illegally enforcing it and dictatorships - France, Spain, UK, Australia, New Zealand ... can't see many dictatorships or totalitarian govts in that list, but countries doing a reasonable job keeping the deaths down, hospital admissions low while trying to keep businesses and educational institutes open.

America's half-assed approach to handling this pandemic has already resulted in 220,000 dead Americans. Instead of a short but strict lockdown, we have opted for a majority who wear masks and a sizeable minority that would rather just pretend that there is nothing to worry about. Looks like a recipe for another 220,000 corpses until we get a semi-effective vaccine, and even that will merely slow the deaths until we either get a better vaccine or the virus mutates into a less lethal form.

southernman wrote: France, Spain, UK, Australia, New Zealand ... can't see many dictatorships or totalitarian govts in that list, but countries doing a reasonable job keeping the deaths down, hospital admissions low while trying to keep businesses and educational institutes open.

New Zealand has done an amazing job of fighting the virus, with only 5 deaths per million people. Australia has also done well, with only 35 deaths per million people. But the rest of your list has nothing to brag about. France: 500 deaths per million. Spain: 704 deaths per million. UK: 630 deaths per million. And for comparison: United States: 663 deaths per million people.

I recall hearing that the pacific got a much less lethal form of covid than europe/america, which may also explain the lack of deaths, though India may show otherwise. Not sure if that held up to genetic analysis though.

I can't imagine folks really think the US DIDN'T lockdown though, it was MONTHS across the entire country, only in late May or June were things opening back up IIRC. Europe now shows us that lockdowns alone are ineffective, the virus can subsist at a low infectivity rate until people start moving around, then it comes right back until all the suseptible people have caught it. Clearly an extended lockdown is not practical and any state that forces it upon an unwilling populace (like Michigan in violation of state law, court rulings, and the demonstrated will of the people) should be denounced as a fascist state accordingly. I believe New Zealand has repeatedly had to close borders as well, so the lockdown is a delay tactic, not a cure. And with no viable cure in sight, just improved treatment, lockdowns are just not practical without a demonstrated time limit to allow for reallocation of medical resources.

"Lockdown" means everyone staying in their own space as much as possible. Despite restaurants and bars closing, many people continued to socialize in large groups and continued to spread the virus. Perhaps you saw but decided to ignore the stories/videos/pictures of people socializing from their balconies in Italy because they had no other outlet? That's what a lockdown means. That's what didn't happen in the US, except in New York City when it was really raging there. In many states, they didn't even approach that kind of dispersal and resisted even closing the obvious outlets, like restaurants, for those "MONTHS" that you're claiming.

Furthermore, the situation in Michigan isn't anything like the fantasy you're creating. How do I know? I live here. There is no "will of the people". It's a bunch of Republican politicians and their unwitting accomplices (there's a distinct streak of hardcore "libertarianism" in Michigan, which is one of the more profound idiocies of modern American politics; I know because my party used to work with them) screeching about how their rights are being violated because the governor asked them to wear a mask in public places as part of the demonstrated and proven method to restrict the spread of the virus. Getting a similarly Republican judge to agree with their fallacious lawsuit is just part of the cost of doin' business here in Michigan, where the bulk of the population is in the south and east, but the gerrymandered legislature gives an outsized voice to the rural north and the west. Keep in mind that much of the resistance to Whitmer's actions is also pretty obviously standard bigotry (i.e. REAL men don't take orders from women), which is what also led to the recent conspiracy to attempt to kidnap her ("Citizens arrest!" screams one particularly offended and offensive sheriff in the west of the state) and put her on trial.

The only fascist elements in the state of Michigan are the ones who currently control the legislature, attempting to put the will of an all-White political minority over the will of the majority, many of whom don't share that skin color.

As a side note: Uba, if you object to my tone again, please keep in mind the disingenuous posts that I've been replying to, as the regular author of those continues to campaign just this side of the "It's all a hoax!" perspective, while frequently reverting to the oppressed victim role (Sea lion, anyone?) when called on it. I respect and encourage your and Gary's efforts to keep conditions in the range of "welcoming" around here, but there are limits to all things.

jason10mm wrote: Clearly an extended lockdown is not practical ...

Clearly to whom? That's not at all clear to me. An extended lockdown COULD be incredibly effective at fighting this pandemic, but it would require a massive federal expenditure to provide support and aid to individuals who can't work, and businesses who can't stay open. But that's "socialism" (EYE ROLL INTO THE BACK OF MY HEAD) so we of course can't do that.

I read an interesting article today positing that American culture is uniquely ill-equipped to deal with a pandemic. First, we don't really believe in a collective, common good. That whole "rugged individual" American myth means that we're unwilling to make personal sacrifice to help someone else. The author cited South Korea as an example of a country whose culture has a strong vein of collectivism and common good.

And second, we simply don't have any faith in government anymore. Conversely, the New Zealand government has like an 88% approval rating. People in NZ actually trust their government.

The author suggested that a disease like Ebola with it's 94% fatality rate would have shocked American culture into changing. But Covid's fatality rate is less than 1%, and Americans have seemingly decided that we're cool with that, as long as we can still go to the bar and get a hair cut.

Minnesota only did five weeks of "lockdown," but roughly 80% of Minnesota workers fell under at least one category of essential worker. Fortunately, a large number of white collar workers were able to work from home, so we didn't have 80% out and about every day. Right now, we're seeing a high plateau of new cases, with a disproportionate coming from rural areas that still don't take masks and social distancing seriously. Earlier on, the several counties in and around the Twin Cities metro area were the hot spots, but they're not so bad now, with most people in public places using masks and public distancing. Minneapolis made masks mandatory for all indoor public locations.

A half-hearted lockdown that lasts months is worthless. A hard lockdown of three weeks, combined with serious contact tracing and testing could be very effective, with only the long haulers presenting an ongoing challenge.

I miss my friends.

I miss going out.

I can deal with it because it helps to keep the people I love safe and it helps to keep the people you love safe.

I sometimes feel on the verge of being overwhelmed. But I recover and try to focus on the positive things.

What I am so very worn down by is this stream of social sickness. I can’t stand it, anymore.

I was given the opportunity to make my remote work situation permanent. I jumped at the chance. Today I traveled to my office for the first time in 7 months and cleaned out my desk. I saw a few people, none of whom were wearing masks.

I'm glad I no longer have to worry about traffic, bad weather, etc.

Shellhead wrote:

southernman wrote: France, Spain, UK, Australia, New Zealand ... can't see many dictatorships or totalitarian govts in that list, but countries doing a reasonable job keeping the deaths down, hospital admissions low while trying to keep businesses and educational institutes open.

New Zealand has done an amazing job of fighting the virus, with only 5 deaths per million people. Australia has also done well, with only 35 deaths per million people. But the rest of your list has nothing to brag about. France: 500 deaths per million. Spain: 704 deaths per million. UK: 630 deaths per million. And for comparison: United States: 663 deaths per million people.

Simple answer to that, Australia and NZ (my family and friends) locked down and CLOSED borders (still closed) before many cases at all hit either countries, hell NZ were able to track the different infection vectors (calling the infections of each clusters) which were less than 20 from memory.
A mixture of luck, by the time cases were being reported they had seen what had happened to the rest of the world, and then tough govt as they followed what the rest of the world was doing and locked everyone in (with borders closed).

Most of Europe got caught napping and paid for it and locked down until levels dropped. The UK had very low numbers so slowly has been opening up the country, the last couple of months the hospitality sector (bars, restaurants) were allowed back to business with social distancing and last month universities had students return - and unfortunately a combination of carelessness/ignorance/stupidity in certain regions of the country has seen cases slowly then rapidly rise leading to regional restrictions (not lockdowns).
Today the govt has just announced a three level of restrictions model that will be applied to regions of the country depending on their case level, hospital admissions and beds filled for COVID cases has already reached March levels in some regions.
Do all you non-restriction/lockdown people think the UK should can these restrictions and just allow another COVID surge to overwhelm our hospitals (who already have a massive backlog on non-COVID patients from earlier this year) and kill another tranche of population ?